[RedBean]

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That said:

1.) That I or anyone else may consent to a loss of freedom for the sake of convenience does not mean there isn't a loss of freedom. No, the subway thing isn't a big deal to me, it just has a very "police state" kind of feeling to me. That's why I mentioned it.


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The "freedom to ride the subway, unfettered from any reasonable random search."

I have to admit, this is the first time I've heard that asserted.

Since you said yourself it wasn't a big deal, we won't spend much time on it.

Moving ahead....

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Suspension of habeas corpus is the major one and has been mentioned many times in this thread by many posters, but your cranium is seemingly too thick to allow this information to penetrate.

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But didn't several recent decisions uphold the right of habeas corpus for citizens, regardless if they were named "enemy combatants"?

You are asserting that "my thick cranium" is not allowing this information you assert to penetrate, but have you considered that this information you assert is not accurate?

For example, in Hamdi v. Rumsfeld, the court re-confirmed the right of United States citizens to habeas corpus even when declared an enemy combatant. The Court affirmed the basic principle that habeas corpus of a citizen could not be revoked.

Please tell me which part of the court's decision says it's okay to deny citizens the right of habeas corpus...because it certainly looks to me like it says exactly the opposite.

In short, my "thick cranium" won't accept the claim that habeas corpus has been suspended for American citizens, because that information doesn't appear to be true.

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All it takes is the government to label you an "enemy combatant", a completely arbitrary designation, for any reason whatsoever, and you can be abducted without charges then sent to a foreign country and tortured. This has already happened to at least one American citizen, probably more..


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Which American citizen did this happen too? I'd be interested in learning more about his/her plight.

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3.) I also mentioned the imprisonment of millions upon millions for victimless crimes. It's easy for you to dismiss this since it doesn't affect you, but I think those imprisoned and their families will likely feel differently, as do I.

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Oh..."The freedom to sell or possess illegal drugs."

I concede, that freedom has been "taken away".