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Old 10-17-2007, 08:21 PM
bilbo-san bilbo-san is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: In ur game, pickin off ur bluffz
Posts: 4,103
Default Re: nl200 yawn..i want to fold a set

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And definitely don't ever fold this, nits are shoving AcQc in spots like this because they finally found a flop they like.

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This is not a good thing. If big clubs and sets are his range then his range's equity slaughters hero's (eg- at the rediculous extreme, AcQc/AcKc/77/TT = 78% equity against 44!!). You need to have him show up with something like KK+ here rather frequently to make this a call. I don't often find nits slowplaying big pairs preflop, though. You get to see his hand regardless of if you fold or call. Take a note. If he does slowplay big pairs preflop then you'll have an easy decision next time a similar situation comes up.

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what about 8c9c / 5c6c / AcTc / TcXc ...tilt, naked flush draw, misplayed JJ+

You can't fold here with 100BBs you just can't

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I think you're missing the issue here. First off, an 18/12 nit isn't cold calling a short stack on the button with suited connectors. But even if he were, him having 5c6c, 8c9c type stuff in his range doesn't really change the matter. Hero has just about zero equity against 77/TT. Against flush draws, he has about 66% equity. 77/TT are much much more likely than flush draws. Villain needs to have something in his range somewhat frequently that we do well against, to make this a call.

This brings us back to the initial requirement - that villain is frequently cold calling preflop with big pairs. If you have this read and can put KK+ in his range with any level of certainty, then it's an easy call. But most nits do not slowplay big pairs preflop - so you cannot simply assume this is the case.

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Your thoughts about what 18/12s will cold-call with here are very wrong.

An 18/17 would re-raise/fold most SCs here. An 18/12 is cold-calling them almost always, and rarely folding them, unless his his VPiP is very high in position (in which case it must be very low from the blinds/UTG to get down to 18%).

Most 18/12s are a little tighter than TAGs, but not overly so, and limp too much, and call too much from the blinds with speculative hands that they think are easy and profitable to play (i.e. hit-big-or-fold hands), such as SCs and pairs, and only 3-bet premiums from the blinds (hence the VPiP/Pfr gap). It's very common for players with this profile to think that SCs have much greater implied odds than they actually do.
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