Re: whats better to call or shove this flop
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I actually kinda, really like call
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If I can try to explain what carrotsnake is thinking, we have 2 very good nut draws. In a pot this multiway, a whole lot of our implied odds come from doodz with non nut draws that will get it in when we hit the turn (lower spades in particular) While shoving is certainly +EV with all the dead money in the pot, you're never getting called by a worse draw and you're often flipping-ish when you get called. Just flatting the flop allows you to realize your implied odds.
Also, if we just call this flop and hit a spade, king or 8 on the turn I think that I like donking more than check/raising. Anyone else?
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If there is another spade draw then that leaves little spade outs. If the turn pairs the board we're pretty much [censored] to continue.
What makes you think another fd is folding if you push anyway?
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