Re: Lets talk socialism for a change
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Gotcha. So if Statist-capitalism causes monopolies and free market interference, I can say capitalism causes monopolies and free market intereference. Makes sense.
[/ QUOTE ]
False. Incorrect analogy.
Your premise is that since National Socialists are hated by another Socialist party (I suppose a "purer" socialist party), then it follows that National Socialists cannot possibly be socialists.
Therefore if Statist-Capitalists, Republicans for instance, are hated by Anarcho-capitalists (a purer form of capitalism), then Republicans cannot possibly be capitalists.
Your follow up analogy bears no resemblance to either of the above comparisons.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, that wasn't what my premise was, but kudos for calling me out on a logical fallacy and not getting it right. Which is pretty embarrassing.
[ QUOTE ]
Hitler was appalled by the revolution. As a German Nationalist he disagreed with the socialist belief in equality.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hitler saw socialism as part of a Jewish conspiracy.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It was no coincidence that Jews had joined socialist and communist parties in Europe. Jews had been persecuted for centuries and therefore were attracted to a movement that proclaimed that all men and women deserved to be treated as equals.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
His officers were impressed by his hostility to left-wing ideas and he was recruited as a political officer. Hitler's new job was to lecture soldiers on politics. The main aim was to promote his political philosophy favoured by the army and help to combat the influence of the Russian Revolution on the German soldiers.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
One change suggested by Hitler concerned adding "Socialist" to the name of the party. Hitler had always been hostile to socialist ideas, especially those that involved racial or sexual equality. However, socialism was a popular political philosophy in Germany after the First World War.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hitler, therefore redefined socialism by placing the word 'National' before it. He claimed he was only in favour of equality for those who had "German blood". Jews and other "aliens" would lose their rights of citizenship, and immigration of non-Germans should be brought to an end.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As this violence was often directed against Socialists and Communists, the local right-wing Bavarian government did not take action against the Nazi Party.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hitler claimed that national socialism meant all people doing their best for society and posed no threat to the wealth of the rich. Some prosperous industrialists were convinced by these arguments and gave donations to the Nazi Party
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The stormtroopers also carried out terrible acts of violence against socialists and communists.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thousands of members of the Social Democrat Party and Communist Party were arrested and sent to recently opened to concentration camp.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Soon afterwards the Communist Party and the Social Democrat Party were banned.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The Nazis abolished trade unions, collective bargaining and the right to strike. An organization called the “Labor Front” replaced the old trade unions, but it was an instrument of the Nazi party and did not represent workers
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In reality, though, Nazi policies did not reflect anything that looks like socialism. How can anyone describe a government that abolishes the right to strike or engage in collective bargaining as “socialist”?
[/ QUOTE ]
I could keep going and going and going, but I'll spare everyone. Now, you can keep making the disingenuous claim that Hitler was a socialist, or that Nazis were a bunch of pesky socialists, but it will only make you look bad/intellectually dishonest. It's not about "socialists hate the National Socialists, therefore they're not socialists," it's that they weren't socialists. Of course, you could make the claim that anyone that believes in any kind of redistribution at all (including Libertarians that think there should be taxes to fund national defense) are socialist. If that's what you're trying to do, then 99.99999999% of people are socialists, and therefore socialists are the cause of every problem there ever was, and your post would be pointless.
How about this. National Socialism is not considered socialism by anyone not 5000 miles to the right of centrism, and only then it's to score cheap partisan points by saying "Nationial Socialist German Workers Party? Hello?? THE NAZIS WERE SOCIALISTS!!! This is what happens when you introduce socialism."
Now, most people just go ahead and say that Hitler would do/say anything to gain power, get rid of the Jews, make Germany a international power, etc., and not use the Nazi experience as an indictment of socialism. Out of the many ways one can impugn socialism, using the Nazis is one of the most pathetic and openly partisan ways you can puke out an argument, especially when using them as some kind of straw-bogeyman against the possible horrors of socialism.
So, getting back to my "fallacy." Anarchocapitalists are quite fond of pointing out that the United States isn't actually capitalist; rather, it actually practices mercantilism or state-capitalism or whatever (but definitely not capitalism), even though there are definitely capitalist characteristics, and everyone else on earth calls it capitalism. Now, harness that disdain you have for American "capitalism" for just a moment, and try hard to concentrate on everything that doesn't make America a legitimate capitalist society, despite all relations it has to capitalism.
Now, imagine a socialist saying "Look at what capitalists have done to the world. They've began horrible wars, they've rigged our country's electoral process to their advantage, they create harmful monopolies, they stifle debate that's outside of their narrow ideological range, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera [insert any number of complaints against statist capitalists here]. LOOK AT WHAT THE CAPITALISTS HAVE DONE. AND YOU WANT A PURELY CAPITALIST SOCIETY???? DIDN'T YOU LOOK AT MY LIST OF WHAT THEY'VE DONE???? You want an anarchocapitalist society?"
Would you consider grievances against state-capitalism or state-capitalists as legitimate knocks against capitalism in general? Of course not. Which is why I take issue with National Socialism (or rather, the Nazis particular brand of dictatorship, bearing no resemblance to anything a real socialist would consider socialism) being considered socialism in your misinformed jeremiad.
|