[moorobot]

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That's not what the words mean. It's not a matter of opinon. What either of us think doesn't really matter.

[/ QUOTE ] In this area it does matter. For we are talking about subjective beliefs, and whether or not something "really is true" will have little effect on what extremist ideologues actually believe. So the opposite of what you claim is true here: what is objectively true actually has little relevance here.

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You can show me why a man who calls himself a government agent is morally different to a man who calls himself a bartender to the extent where one can take money under the threat of force and one cannot.

[/ QUOTE ] Now you are asking for a normative argument...something which itself is unprovable; notice the term "show" here. Nobody can prove this; all normative arguments rest on questionable assumptions/premises that one can refuse to believe without inconsistency or lack of logic. As an example, as long as you continue to believe that intentions trump consequences nothing can be done in this area. As I argued earlier, the view that intentions are more important, politically speaking, than consequences, is disgusting, impractical, and dangerous, although not, strictly speaking, illogical. You are asking me to use logic to combat a view that fundamentally is based in emotion.