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Old 11-22-2007, 02:15 PM
Shattered Shattered is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 297
Default Re: KK and terrible flop

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I c-bet here because I also c-bet if I had an ace. If Im in position I check behind. Yes I realize a c-bet turns our hand into a bluff, but so what? Were not trying to get value really out of anything. Were trying to take the pot down now.

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I bet here every time if I have an ace as well. I also bet if I have Q high, a pair of 4s, whatever, you have a ton of fold equity. I don't bet here with a pair of kings. Do you see the difference? Kings have showdown value and don't need to bet for protection. I bet jacks here, but never kings.

Why are you trying to take down the pot now? There's few reasons to break the Fundamental Theorem of Poker and allow your opponent to play perfectly, and the one that everyone seems to be saying is to prevent you from making a mistake on later streets (as evidenced by people saying you have to bet to find out where you are.) The thing is, it's almost impossible to make a larger mistake later: It's not like you're going to be calling 2 PSBs. In fact, you get the same amount of information for the same amount of money after villain's turn action. Keeping the pot small and take it to showdown, maybe throwing in one valuebet or calling one bet along the way, is much better than trying to win just what's in the pot now by essentially bluffing at it.

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C/c is pretty bad here as youre going to have villain fire at you with a large part of his range but the problem is he could easily fire the turn again.

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This is just wrong. It takes a special type of player to double barrel bluff a board this dry, and villain is the polar opposite of that player.

It seems to me that everyone's so terrified of not knowing whether their hand is good or not that they just want to bet, getting the information at the cost of a lot of EV.
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