[jesse8888]

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I'm grunching. I limp this too. Flop play is, of course, goot. The raise is for value and if you fold out one big club or a gutshot in the blinds, great.

I have no godly idea what to do on the turn. In this situation I think calling is a good idea. A raise doesn't protect you from the flush draw and I'm confused as hell about villain's hand. He probably thinks you were doing the free card play (all old people automatically put us on fancy stuff; it's like a rule or something).

re-evaluate on river

EDIT: I'm never going to get any better at this; maybe I should give up. I don't get it. There are open enders and a flush draw possible with 2 people other than villain already in the hand. The first caller is getting an immediate, what, like 5.25-1 on the call, and if he called the other one is getting better than 6. How does raising protect us from straight and flush draws? Can't we wait until the river and raise a blank/bet for value then?

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Just because you can't drive out a draw doesn't mean you shouldn't charge it the maximum. Look at it this way; if you just call, you're going to have to put in a bet on the river. If you raise, you can most likely take a free showdown against the CO, also putting in two bets.

In the first case, you've allowed the other players in the hand to pay only 1 big bet while you had to pay 2. In the second, you've managed to get the (presumably still behind) other players to put in 2 big bets. They may have had odds to pay 2 bets (although it's hard to believe they BOTH did), but that doesn't mean you didn't make some money by making them do it.