[Buzz]

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The point I was not so eloquently trying to make was your raises should not define your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]Hi Dismas - You were eloquent enough. My immediate reaction to what you wrote in the quote was "But they do."

I think there are fundamental differences between playing on-line and playing in a live casino. Part of our seeing this differently is a result of the difference between B&M casino and on-line play.

Of course I agree with you, that your raises should not define your hand.

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And there is room to value bet your hand pre-flop.

[/ QUOTE ]Perhaps that is true in your games.

I could be wrong, but I believe it's not true in my games if my opponents see my pre-flop raises as value bets. And unless I focus on my own cards more and my opponents less, it's hard for me to bet so that they don't. For me, it's a question of how much emphasis do I want to give to my cards at the expense of the considering the effect my action will have on my opponents. It's very hard to verbalize and explain this - and that's frustrating to me. I don't think we're looking at it from the same perspective.

Even if my opponents call a pre-flop raise, at least some of them are smart enough to be alerted to the possibility of a value bet, and they play accordingly.

However, although it is true that in some games I rarely raise before the flop, if I have somehow given the impression that I never raise before the flop, that is incorrect.

And the raise has some relationship to the cards I actually hold. But it isn't, rightly or wrongly, dependent on how good my starting hand is.

Some people ask the dealer to show my cards if I muck them at the showdown after seeing I am beat. They obviously want to know how I am playing. And when my cards are shown, those who didn't ask crane their necks to see. At least some of my opponents are clearly focusing on how I am playing my cards. And indeed I focus on how my opponents are playing their cards.

Room for value betting? I don't know. Maybe there is. When an opponent raises, depending on the opponent and my cards, I probably call with a hand I was planning to play without the raise.

But the pre-flop raise is always in the back of my mind as I play the hand and try to put my opponent on cards. And you're right - the calls of other opponents are also in my mind as I try to put them on cards. Both the raises and the calls give information for all but the maniacs.

But if there is room for value betting before the flop for you in your games, then go ahead and value bet.

Buzz