[pvn]

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I don't know what you mean by "entitled to something", but since you seem to be disagreeing with me I'll assume you mean ownership. I.e. they necessarily believe that they own the person who they are inflicting force upon. Your alternative is that they "subscribe to 'might makes right", which is a meaningless caricature of a statement almost as bad as "the meaning of life is reproduction".

So if you're drunk and planning on driving and I take your keys does this mean I think I own you? If you say yes, then you have a quite different concept of ownership than I do. It's clearly not "might makes right", because I'm deciding what I think is "right" first and then using "might" to enforce it. So which is it?

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Temporary, acute restraint is not the same as chronic, systematic restraint (which is what we were talking about).

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I said "So if anyone ever tries to force anyone to do (or not do) anything it means they think they own them? I don't buy that." There's nothing about temporary vs systematic force in what I said and the person I was responding to didn't specify that either.


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Regardless, for your intervention to be "right" one of the following must be true:

1) you are entitled to intervene
2) the person you're acting against has no self-ownership
3) the fact that you can do it is enough to make it right

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I'm not talking about what's "right". I'm disagreeing with the assertion that inflicting force upon someone means you think that you own them.

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Then you're going with #3.

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Still, I can tell you what the reasoning would be behind my taking the key from you and it is none of the three options you listed.

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The motivation is different than the justification.

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You can consider it my standard of what is "right" if you like. I consider taking your keys to be negative. I consider you driving drunk to be even more negative. Therefore the negative of taking your keys is worth it, since the negative of you driving drunk outweighs it.

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This subjective ranking isn't enough to provide a justification for the action on its own.