[celiholic]

after a few min of thoughts on the hand, i swore that i dont know what zupp b4 coming out with this arguement ...

given that if zupp and timex is a good/tough player, they played alot with each other, and can think in 3th, 4th level ...

then..

i'll call if zupp is betting 60-75% of the pot and fold a psb or an over bet, however i dont like it cos zupp might be vb-ing jj-kk with that amount too, but its a close call

timex hand is pretty face up as every1 said, and there is a low prob. that his range has aj+.

if zupp is bluffing....
- timex has pp lowering then a 9
- ace was a good card to bluff for zupp if the have nothing
- timex knew zupp knew what he had, and ace was a good card to bluff, and zupp knew what timex knew
- so if zupp have to bluff him off a pair, then zupp need make a bet that seem like a vb around 65-75% potsize, a bet which seem like valuetown-ing, and plus a little more to make it look like bluffing, it would be too obvious bet a psb bluff since both player are well aware what their ranges are..

if zupp vb-ing,
- he knew what timex ranges were, and that the ace was a bad card for him to vb
- if he make any bet, there is no hand that he can really get value for, coz the most dangerous card has fall on the river, if timex doesnt have the ace.
- if zupp make a psb, it will look like a bluff, and timex might call down lightly, and the ace is the prefect card for zupp to bluff, nothing much he can paid off with beside he had Ax anywayz...
- so timex will start thinking why he bet so much, maybe a bluff .... etc

the ace was supposed to be the worst card for both of them(if you duno that he had quad), however it was the prefect card for zupp get value of ...

its kinda like... "it so obvious that a psb is a bluff(situration wise), then it would be stupid to bluff like that if knew both each other's range and etc, so therefore, its can't be a bluff .."

its really hard for me to explain it(for the zupp vb-ing part) after i knew what zupp had coz i didn't put tt to kk range in zupp range when i was explaining, coz he can vb-ing those as well. i hope some1 does understand my thought of process.

it really depends how many level they are going thru, it really hard for us to comment which one is right or wrong coz we dont know their history, and how many levels they are thinking thru. i came this up imagining timex is me, and zupp is my fd. we both know our play so well that those situration came up alot (hav u even tried b3b the river and get call with ace high ? altho it was a small pot, and its not a pair board) ... when poker are going thru so much level of thinking, it might go back to the 1st level where the .5/1 players play the same way, or it would look absolute stupid like total donks.

i dont write so well so i hope you guys can stick with it.