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If a dealership shows you the invoice and says they'll sell it to you at that, or you can talk them to it, take it. Trying to get it under invoice because you know they may make some money somewhere on it is pretty fruitless. My boss sent a girl packing the other night because she was trying to buy a car from us doing that [censored].

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There is always another dealer. The last car I bought was a couple hundred under invoice, the dealer still made $450. That seems like enough profit; I mean if they don't want to make $400 I am sure there is a dealer somewhere that would like the $400.

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They didn't actually make $400. That's more like a factory rebate to the dealer to cover overhead. Generally, if a dealer is digging into holdback it is a net loser deal. They just wanted to get rid of the car.

Now, how do dealers do this and stay in business on new stuff? Easy. You weren't looking in the right place. You were likely so focused on the price you didn't notice when they totally buttsecksed you on the financing. Have a nice day!

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Or maybe they understand marginal revenue. I wrote them a check, they were happy to make $400.

I guess it is important to you that people think buying a car at invoice is a good deal.