[futuredoc85]

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people have much much much much wider ranges for pushing all in than for calling all in,

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In passive games, people clearly don't, except those who are easily identified as maniacs. If people have such wide ranges for pushing, then why are people posting hands where they pushed with KK instead of hands where they called someone's push? (How about hands from NL $50 or NL $100 involving an open raise or a limp-reraise from early position.) Could it be that it is hard to find the hands that have to be there often to make calling a large push with KK +EV? I've looked, and I don't see them in my database at NL 100 (I skipped NL 50). I see them at NL 25 and NL 200 and above, and the decision to call gets easier above NL 200.

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jesus do you even play online b/c you sound like a live player who plays in absurdly passive games

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Of course I do. I have hundreds of thousands of hands of experience online at a wide variety of stakes. Please avoid speculative ad hominem.

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re: your first point- i just posted 2 from 100NL, but probably because its a pain to look for every hand someone shoved preflop. also id venture most ppl are only looking for hands where they had KK, since obv. the hand we have when they shove is irrelevant as long as they shove w/ less than KK. Also most ppl arent really willing to go to much trouble for this question because it has been asked and answered many times before.

2nd point- fair enough i apologize but i was just saying what it seems like. i have never played in a game passive enough to fold KK pf for 100bbs so im actually curious what site you're playing on that you have done so more than once or twice? there are of course exceptions to every rule. if the action is like utg raises, utg+1 3-bets, MP- min 4-bets, CO- shoves 100BBs then you can easily muck KK from the blinds. but in a standard someone raises, someone else 3-bets, original raiser 4-bets situation KK should never really be folded for 100bbs imo.