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Old 10-27-2007, 09:37 AM
James. James. is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: McFadden for Heisman
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Default Re: value betting rivers

i like alot of what guru had to say about the number of streets of value a holding warrants. i strongly agree with this concept and think it's one of the biggest differences in limit and NL strategy(for instance TP in limit can often afford bets going in on all 3 streets with a raise somewhere and still show profit; TP in NL can be a 2 street or 3 street hand[opponent dependent] but if a raise goes in you're fairly often in bad shape if it presents a stack decision or even a raise that commits you to stacking off later). our opponent is obviously a huge function of this equation since against looser, calling station-types we can valuebet more liberally, while you will often need to check a street to maximize against more aggressive(LAG and TAG) opponents.

this is where pot control is a powerful tool for the times want to showdown but avoid making a stack decision. it's also a good way to disguise your hand while at the same time expanding your opponent's range of "action" holdings and induce bluffs, etc increasing your equity against him when money goes in.

against an unknown with middle pair or TP no kicker, i would either check the flop or bet the flop and check the turn. which street to do it on matters less to me when we don't know our opponent because both plays carry benefits against different types of players. since it's pretty standard to c-bet after raising pf, generally, i think the same range peels the flop as they would the turn after we feign weakness by checking the flop. as guru stated previously, these types of flops(coordinated with lower broadways) tend to hit a typical limper's holdings and as such that might swing it to making a flop check superior in this particular instance.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see people calling river bets here with top pair too much (even live players tend to tighten up to a third barrel), but clearly he's never laying down a flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

this quote brings up another point. it's important to know what types of players will lay down top pair to that 3rd barrel and on what boards they will do it on. this really opens up your ability to bluff ATC and puts you in a strong position of exploiting your opponent's weak tendencies. being able to take down a pot without actually making a hand can add significantly to your overall earn(assuming you aren't risking too much).

and fwiw, i don't particularly like pf. i say this because you are making SPR decisions like you're going to be committed if you flop top pair or something. since alot of opponents in live games won't raise a hand like AT/AJ(or even AQ and to a lesser extent AK) i'm afraid when we start making commitment decision with top pair ten kicker, against alot of opponents we aren't going to be getting it in the best of it.
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