[pen15]

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FWIW, I know some people aren't going to believe the HHs don't exist anymore for Seif-gate. However, the story from AP support that they don't have the hand history from 2006 fits what I've been told before.

Basically I had a partial tournament HH on my local hard drive and wanted to retrieve the rest of my hands. With the partial HH I had access to the tourney ID and some hands from the tourney -- so it was possible to easily identify the tournament, date, etc. Unfortunately, it was about 2.5 months after the tourney when I finally got around for asking for the rest of the history. After going a few rounds with the support staff, the final answer was they didn't keep the hand histories that long.

So, I wouldn't try to read anything into the inability to retrieve the Feb 2006 hand histories from Seif-gate other than the sillyness in purging hand histories so quickly. I can only hope that in the interest of future audits and such that they'll keep the hand histories longer in the future.

Jeff

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Hi, first post [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

You know I think all this hand history beinig stuff is pretty damming. As I understand it AP don't automatically store you HH on your machine (assumming it is the same as Ultimate Bet).

Any site interested in preventing cheating/fraud would be storing the HH for as long as possible. The costs are negligible, laughably small compared to the profits poker sites make.

If they are systemically destorying hand historys than that is negligent, bordering on criminally negligent, in my opinion.

If they don't have the histories then they should be reimbursing any player who has lost money at the site because in my opinion. The onus is on the site to detect fraud, and if they have destroyed the evidence to detect fraud then the site should cough up!

It might teach them to be more careful in future!!

Further to that I will be contacting all the sites I play at and if they don't have all my hand histories from day 1 one then I will be closing my account.

I suggest other player do the same, that way the sites which don't care about security will hopefully go out of business.

By the way I would like to a big thank you to the guys who discovered this fraud, it seems the only way you can get justice these days is when the people take action.

Long live the internet!!