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Old 10-24-2007, 07:01 AM
RobNottsUk RobNottsUk is offline
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Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 359
Default Re: The old notion of passing up marginal +ev spots in tournaments...

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Look up the article on flipping in tournaments by Matt Matros.

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Interesting article, but the author assumes that there is added value in having the big stack, if you add 10% to the stack size acheived with 0.538 probability you are going to skew the answer in favour of "flipping".

Against bad players who call too much and pay off, the value of a big stack is in riding beats, and the opportunity to play more speculative hands (but is this really worth 20% of the starting stack?). You´ld call in the BB with QQ, expecting frequently to see JJ..22 or AQ..A9, but do you really think calling against AKs is the TEV maximising decision against worse players?

462 x 1.1 = 508 cost BI´'s

538 profit, making + 30 BI´s per 1,000 tourneys.

Folding accepts accepts a hit of tc 50, out of stack 10,000.


But what is your TEV of the double up chip stack?

According to the article author, it´s not $20,000 but $22,000 to reflect a higher TEV and big stack benefits.

If it were a Winner Takes All, then clearly you take the shot, as there´s +ve TEV in the increased winning chances, each chip is worth the same.

But if you believe theory of multiple placings tournaments who calculate that each extra chip is actually worth less, due to the tourney pay out structure then you won´t agree with those article conclusions nor the working.

Flippers, as everyone in the long run is dealt the same cards, to profit in a tourney, you need to find some way of getting an edge, that is not dependant on "cards speak". If you were forced to flip every hand, it is obvious that you´ld be a losing player due to the entry fees in tourneys without added value.

Good spots do crop up against bad players, even in 8min blind level SnG´s online, the main beneficaries of flipping are the players who folded their hands, not those hoping to double up.
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