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Old 10-24-2007, 05:00 AM
MoonOrb MoonOrb is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Somewhere in the South Pacific
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Default Re: KK .10./.20 PS--fold river when best result is a chop?

For everyone who wants to bet the turn, can someone help me out a little bit and explain why?

This is how I see it: When the fourth diamond hits, if villain doesn't hold a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], he folds. So a bet here has close to zero +EV (allowing for the very small % of people who call down with a worse hand than mine). Since I'm therefore not betting the turn for value, the only reason to bet is to make a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] fold.

I don't think many [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]'s fold here. If any do, it's the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], or 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. 7 and higher are all calling, I think, especially with the K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] coming out and taking away one of the higher [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]'s vill's got to worry about.

But then the problem is that these low diamonds don't fit any likely holdings that would have called 2 cold preflop and then called the flop bet.

That's why I don't think a turn bet works. It's not a bet for value since it's not going to be called by second best hands and it's not going to get a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] to fold, since none of the [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]'s that make any sense for vill's range are low enough to fold here.

I want to get to the river since I have ten outs with the FH, so I still think c/c is the best line for the turn.

On the river, I now think c/f is the best line. There's (I think) a slightly less than 40% chance that the villain is holding at least one [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] just based on possible starting card distributions. Given that he called a flop bet, I think it's even more likely. But if I need him to be bluffing one time out of four to make the call correct, then with the info I now have, c/f is the best line here.
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