[elwoodblues]

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But thats exactly my point. Even without the Constitution, I would absolutely have the right to vote (given the reality of democracy). There might be those who would infringe on that right, but just because someone rapes me does not mean I do not have the right to self-ownership. If the Constitution had never been amended to include universal suffrage I would still have that right. It follows logically from my other rights. The government would simply not RECOGNIZE the right that I do, in fact, still have.

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Okay, let's put it this way. There are two concepts: Right and Natural Right. Is your definition of the former any different than the latter? If so, in what ways. Bonus points: name 1 right (derived from anywhere) that is not a natural right.

My suspicion is that you desperately want the word "right" to be narrower than the commonly used/dictionary definition of the term.


Forget for a moment the right to vote. How about the right to a jury trial or the right to citizenship at birth. Are you suggesting that absent the Constitution, you would absolutely have the right to a jury trial??