Re: simple hand vs good player
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Isn't it funny that there is zero chance anyone is ever folding TT+ here? I'm not saying its not correct to call down there I'm just saying I remember playing 5/10 6m like 2-3 years ago and it would have been laughable bad to continue past the flop vs a "standard TAG" then. Everyone's a maniac now [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
-DeathDonkey
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I just wanted to point out that folding QQ right away on the flop is still gonna be the best play in a vacuum vs many tags in this spot. In fact there are still enough of these tag types that we should all be on the lookout for them so we dont have to pay off all the way in these spots. I can think of 3 tags off the top of my head where calling down a flop check/raise with QQ is just giving money away: Surfdoc, Thehip41, and me.
I think thats why Surfdoc brought this thread up cuz its hard for our flop check/raise to not be exploitable in this spot since the kind of tag like Surf or me will have Kx+ or better in this spot every time. But theres a reason why we can be this exploitable....becuz nobody folds 88+ or better in this spot.
In the rare case when were against an opponent than can fold a hand like QQ here, then there has to be a better strategy than check/raising the flop.
Choosing between these lines should be fine:
1) Donk flop cuz nobody believes donkbets
2) Check/call donk turn
3) Check/call, check/call, donk river
4) Check/call, check/call, check/raise river
5) check/call, check/raise.
Surfdoc, I think this is an excellent thread simply becuz youre encouraging thought in a spot where most people dont think anymore.
The reason I quoted Deathdonkey's statement is cuz I agree with him. Nobody is folding TT+ here. It is my contention that against a non-insignificant population of tags at the mid-limits, we can makes these folds. Of course as I write this, I am reminded of a statement I once heard Clarkmeister's say: "The more 'correct' folds that I look for, the less money I seem to make."
This game is fun isnt it. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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