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Old 10-02-2007, 11:18 PM
Buzz Buzz is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: L.A.
Posts: 3,633
Default Re: Value in a river donk? 15/30

[ QUOTE ]
CHECK CALL HERE IS A VERY WEAK PLAY

[/ QUOTE ]I guess it depends on what you mean by "weak."

After this action and considering Hero's cards, I'd call check-fold a "weak" play.

Hero can either (1) bet or (2) try to trap Button into betting. Neither of these is what I would call a "weak" play.

I think if Hero checks, Button will bet almost regardless of his hand.

I'm not sure what will happen if Hero bets. Button may raise, call, or fold. If Button raises, there's the danger of getting quartered. If Button folds, Hero loses a bet by failing to induce a bluff. If Button calls, it's the same as if Hero check/calls.

This is a limit game, not a pot limit game, and I think the two games play quite differently. There's no reasonable chance a decent limit Omaha-8 player at this $15/$30 limit will raise on the turn and then fold a hand that would win part of this pot to a single bet on the river. That would be bizarre. Villain only folds a hand that can't win anyhow.

[ QUOTE ]
YOU ARE GIVING WAY TOO MUCH CREDIT TO PEOPLE NOT FIRING THIS RIVER,

[/ QUOTE ]I had to think about that for a while. That is an on-going concern of mine in low limit games. Do I give my opponents too much credit? Probably sometimes I do. But I don't think Hero would be giving Villain too much credit here.
[ QUOTE ]
I CANT TELL YOU HOW MANY TIMES OPP HAS MUCKED OR FOLDED TO THIS BET EVEN IN LIMIT

[/ QUOTE ]This is limit.

Button would not be facing a bet after he had previously called on three rounds. If Button had called three rounds, then Button might be expected to finally give up on the river.

But Button called on the first two rounds and then raised on the third betting round. I believe if he folds on the river, it is almost surely because Hero has a better hand.

I simply don't realistically see Button folding any hand that would otherwise take part of the pot. Button only folds here if his raise on the turn was a bluff. In that case, there is a slight benefit to Hero by betting, in that he doesn't have to show down his hand. But to me the benefit of inducing a bluff, and then earning a big bet by picking off the bluff outweighs the benefit of keeping a hand concealed.

And besides, I think Button actually has some sort of decent fit with this board and there is not much of a chance he will fold to a bet. (But by checking, there's just that slight chance Button will try a bluff).

All in all, I think the benefits of checking and then calling outweigh the benefits of betting.

Buzz
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