OK ... clearly both these guy suck
against these guys raising isn't a bad option - mainly because they can play like this with such a wide range of holdings (I can't even imagine)
donker ... and board hit, any on the come hand, a 5 hit, hell an Ace-UI ... and of course and solid hand that he has no idea how to play
the caller can also have a wide range of hands ... if donker 3bet - i easily call down (this is complete crap so often)
now on the river after donker 3bet turn ... if middle retard raises (I could find a fold depending on the card - like a 3 or something
)
hell ... I've had a guy do this with K2 and he called down - and other guy 3bet middle pair