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Old 09-23-2007, 08:47 PM
Absolution Absolution is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,016
Default Checking the turn in position

So here are some hands the represent a leak of mine. I tend to do this near the end of a long session when I'm trying to push too hard. I messed up a lot in these hands, but I'm really interested in the turn in these hands. I remember miles writing a post a while ago where he showed some hands that he checked behind on the turn when he was the pre-flop aggressor and it was heads up. He thought he checked behind a lot more than most people here and from the responses he was right. I feel somewhat lost on the turn in these spots and tend to play too much by feel. When do you check behind on the turn when it's heads up and you were the pre-flop raiser?

Hand 1:

Against a calling station who I've seen peel the flop and then fold in the past.

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP calls.

This is probably too weak of a hand to isolate.

Flop: (5.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP calls.

I have a gutshot and possible 2 live cards and I've seen him fold the turn in the past so I fired again. What if this were against a more aggressive player? Easy check through right?

River: (5.75 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP calls.

That's a pointless bet because I have the nut high no pair and this guy doesn't fold on the river for one bet when he has a pair.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB


Hand 2:

Against a loose passive, but I'm not sure about his peeling range. I'd assume it's quite large and could be any 2. That doesn't mean he'll give up though on the turn.

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls.

Should I even be raising here against a guy that will always call and probably peel most flops?

Flop: (4.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

All my outs are potentially clean in this spot and if he was peeling with A high he might fold it here. Is this another check through against a more aggressive player?

River: (5.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

This is also a pointless bet because I'm basically hoping to fold out A or K high, but if he was drawing on this board I could still have the best hand.

Final Pot: 7.25 BB

I'd like to put more thought into balancing checking through on the turn (basically giving up the pot unless I improve or he checks the river) versus semi-bluffing or betting for a free showdown unimproved.
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