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Then we will expect every one of you to show up and play the Razztoberfest so we can all benefit from the experience.

I agree with Andy and share Randy's feeling we were insulted, even as I am sure it wasn't meant as a personal comment. So - I'm over it.

OK, I'm not so great when I have no luck. But I watch poker on the net - which some think is odd, but I find it instructive and I've seen at least two of the players SG mentioned donk off a load of chips on Razz hands I could see should've been folded. So, we are all vulnerable to donkpokeritis.

I agree with Andy that it is the quantity of bad players, the ratio to good players, that changes as you get higher. But I also know that some of these stratospheric players (like 15/30) come bottom-feeding at 1/2, so I'm not assuming anything until I see them play.

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Thanks for the invite, Prax, but I typically am busy sat. afternoons so I can't make any promises. I like the idea of the tourney tho, and anything that helps get some excitement going about the game of razz. We have to go a long way to overcome the Norman Chad insultfest of 2004.

About the quality of players, you make a good point that no one is immune to bad play. The best among us make rash decisions, go on tilt, showboat, etc. and will donk off chips from time to time. The more general issue is what makes a player good? There are many aspects to this overall skill such as hand reading, math fundamentals, deception, adapting to opponents, etc. Since there are very few "perfect" players, some players weaknesses will play into others' strength so player 1 may be a donk vs. player 2, but a very good player otherwise. Here is a copy of a post I made on the subject of dealing with donkeys from "another" poker site:

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Donkeys actually have an advantage over other marginal players. By "donkeys" I assume you're talking about either horrible calling stations, or complete maniacs. These types of players will only make one type of mistake, either calling too often or betting too often, while other marginal players are always trying to figure out the right play but not always making it. Therefore they are open to all kinds of mistakes: bad calls, bad bets, and bad folds.

Part of the problem is also due to playing styles. Like a complex game of Roshambo, in poker some styles will beat others when skill levels are roughly even, while losing to a third kind. A lot of donkeys get by on the fact that they make other players adjust to their style, and only good players are up to the task. Observe the donkeys, get a read on their style and habits if not their cards, and then you can exploit them.

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