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Old 09-08-2007, 11:48 AM
Cry Me A River Cry Me A River is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,866
Default Re: phydaux\'s PBP - Confessions of a uNL grinder

Huh. I don't understand the problem then.

If you're playing small pockets or SC's vs a raise you either hit a monster, or monster draw. Otherwise you fold.

I don't think Charger's hand is an example of what you're looking for.

1 - Hero has the best possible position, there's no one behind him.
2 - Villain makes a min-raise pf which is [censored].
3 - Villain makes a small cbet on a pretty dry flop that gets checkraised by BB. Not raised by someone behind hero.

BTW - I'm folding or raising in Chargers hand, depending on what I think that villains min-raise/weak cbet means (usually missed overs but some villains like to do this kind of crap with monsters) and whether he can fold those overs. Gutshots are garbage.

I'm going to turn this into what Win.by.TKo describes...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($50)
MP2 ($34.70)
MP3 ($24.95)
CO ($64.05)
Button ($48.75)
SB ($49.50)
BB ($9.65)
UTG ($55.35)
UTG+1 ($55.25)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to $2</font>, Hero calls $2, MP2 calls $2, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls $2, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls $1.50.

Flop: ($10.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets $8</font>, MP2 folds, Hero folds.

What's hard about that?

Let's say instead flop was a little different:

Flop: ($10.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]<font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets $8</font>, MP2 folds, Hero folds.

What's hard about that? If there was nobody behind me, I'd be inclined to play back at UTG+1 but given that UTG+1 just cbet into 4 players and one of the set miners behind me may well have hit his 44/55 I'm not sticking around to find out in my mid-TPNK is any good when we could easily be playing for stacks any minute now.

There are only three reasons you want to stick around in a raised pot:

1) You want to play for stacks.
2) You think you can take it away from the PFR (raising a low flop, floating, etc).
3) You're getting good odds to draw but don't want to play for stacks yet (usually because you have no FE).

In bloated, multiway, raised pots your goal is almost always to get yourself into a situation 1) or 3), you'll almost never have a good opportunity for 2). So just get out unless you're prepared to felt.
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