[m3dude]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

5 10, 2000 deep, 6 max online game, you hold kk on the button. utg opens for 40, co raises to 140, you make it 350. good player in the bb cold calls. both others fold. flop t83. he checks. you bet and he raises. folding has to be considered a viable option here whether or not you en dup folding, even tho this book reccomends never folding here.

[/ QUOTE ]

so the pot is $885 on the flop. SPR = 1.86. you bet $600. you've now put 1/2 your stack in, and you're going to fold? to me, that really doesn't seem like something even worth considering, no matter how solid the villain is. the decision to bet on that flop in that situation should be a decision that you are willing to play for stacks.

if you are considering folding to a raise there vs that particular villain, you should just check.

edit: think about this situation with REM and SPR in mind. you reraise to create an SPR that is ideal vs UTG and CO. you're not expecting to get called by the BB, because he's so solid.

when he calls, if he's that solid, you have to basically put him on AA. he didn't have anywhere near the odds to call there with any other hand.

ok, so two things:

1) maybe an SPR of 1.5 (as opposed to, say, 2) is ideal vs this particular player with a top pair / overpair hand. if that's true, then you didn't get there preflop (because you weren't expecting to play vs this player), and you should only put in > 30% of your stack if you plan to commit.

2) if you put him specifically on AA, then you shouldn't commit unless there's a K on the flop (or you flop an OESFD or something).

the book doesn't aim to get us to stop thinking. it does an excellent job of providing a framework & a new way of organizing your thinking about how to make the best decision in every situation, starting preflop and continuing through the entire hand. each decision you make will have a huge impact on the decisions you'll be faced with later in the hand, and that's something you have to consider when making your decisions early in the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol have u ever even played 5 10 before? from this post it seems like u have no clue how it plays

[/ QUOTE ]

lol. folding an overpair when you've put 1/2 your stack in is generally a bad idea regardless of the stakes or the characteristics of the game you're playing.

and even if you could somehow rationalize that the BB calling in that spot in a particular type of game with some hand other than AA is "solid", doing so would require that he be assigning a very wide range to your hand. if that's true, then that would even further support the notion that you should never consider folding to his c/r after putting in 1/2 your stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

im more referring to the ranges your putting players on. 5 10 plays pretty aggro.

and when u have no outs(2), how much you have invested isnt as important as your equity v villians likely range aside from calculating odds on your call