[Matt Flynn]

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I don't find the book horrible but I think it gives a fake sense of security to those who want a quick cookbook recipe to beat poker.

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Frankly, it sounds like you're the one looking for a cookbook. The authors are giving you concepts to play with. Obviously strong opponents are not going to allow you to do things that make the game easy to play. That's why they're strong opponents. If all opponents in a game are applying optimal strategy and theory, then it approaches an irresistable force/immovable object scenario.

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No sir I do not want a cookbook because there is none and never will be. They are not giving concepts sir, NLTHP gave concepts this book gives concrete examples that show that if you bet x all you have to do is pot, pot ,pot and you will get the money.

This maybe be true against the weak live fish but this does not hold true for the tougher online games 5/10 and up. Maybe even 3/6. Players will adjust to your hand ranges and pot pot pot will be giving them money or not getting payed at all. That is my only issue with the book nothing else. I think the information is very good against the fish but not that great against the better regs in today's games.
And if you couldn't beat the fish already without this book well then....

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hi tighty,

i think i understand you better now. i feel we don't disagree nearly as much as has been presented in this thread. yes, reality is SPR is only so helpful and is not sufficient to make someone a winner in a tough game. you still gotta play poker and get good at hand reading.

the idea that SPR sets it all up and then it's easy is NOT in PNL and is not mine or Sunny's or Ed's. _easier_ yes. easy no.

SPR helps you manage effective odds in your favor and to a lesser extent helps you avoid situations that are bad for you but good for opponents who have position or hands of a different class or both. that's it.

you still have to adapt to new information and changes in estimated ranges. "i did this, so my opponent will put me on this range." "He raised the flop, so my estimation of his range changes to this." then you put all that together to reevaluate. SPR provides the sanity check. then you go play poker.

overall, SPR still applies in any game. but as postflop information increases in importance and as skilled aggression increases, the game becomes far harder and cannot be played cookie-cutter, even when that cookie cutter supposedly is SPR. however, it still helps to know when the hard play will come in, and when you should just grit your teeth and get all-in even if the decision seems tough.

in nosebleed hu games, for example, it often becomes correct to get all in with weak top pair after a hand plays out a certain way. but you cannot always get all-in there: you'll get killed. so you must learn to hand read well and feel the flow of your opponent's play to succeed. you must know when to get all-in with a weak hand and when to let it go. SPR can help a little, but the adjustment to postflop information becomes so extreme that ANY preflop technique (save for shortstacking) must necessarily be limited in value.

let me repeat this publicly right now: SPR is NOT sufficient to overcome tough games with medium stacks. you still gotta hand read and play poker.

tighty does that response address your issues? fine if we still disagree but your concerns are well stated and i wanted to respond to all of them.

matt