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The point of modern liberalism is not to keep people alive regardless of their contribution to society, it is to make as many people as possible productive.

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In my experience in working within the government systsem I would say that nothing could be further from the truth. Entitlement programs do exactly the opposite, they make people unproductive.

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In the context of this discussion, the effectiveness of the programs is somewhate irrelevant. hmk is making claims as to the motives/objectives of modern liberals. To the extent that the programs work or fail does not change the intended purpose. To use the design flaws of social programs to denounce the intent of the social programs is analagous to saying "Brakes on cars aren't really meant to stop cars. How do I know? Sometimes the brakes fail."