[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
the turn cards I'm really hoping to catch are an Ace, or a high club (9c, Qc, or Jc). Decent cards are the other clubs, kings, queens, and jacks.

[/ QUOTE ]Pipes - The aces and kings are what I would consider stand alone cards. You'd like to improve, but maybe trip aces with a king kicker will win and maybe two pairs, aces and kings, will win. Those five cards (the aces and kings) are iffy, but I'll count them as whole outs for the turn.

However, the clubs are not stand alone cards. For the queen of clubs you still need another club or a jack on the river. Similarly for the jack of clubs you still need another club or a queen on the river. For the rest of the clubs, you need another club (or an ace or king) on the river.

And the other queens and jacks are not stand alone cards either. For the other queens you still need a jack (or an ace or king) on the river. For the other jacks you still need a queen (or an ace or king) on the river.

Tabulating:
5*19/44 scoop outs, ace or king
5*25/44 half pot outs, ace or king
2*10/44 scoop outs, Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
2*7/44 half pot outs, Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
1*7/44 scoop outs, 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
1*7/44 half pot outs, 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
7*14/44 half pot outs, low clubs
6*9/44 scoop outs, non-club Q or J

Thus you have 21 cards with which you can continue, but they're not all what you should consider "outs."

2.1 scoop outs, ace or king
2.8 half pot outs, ace or king
0.5 scoop outs, Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
0.3 half pot outs, Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
0.2 scoop outs, 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
0.2 half pot outs, 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
2.2 half pot outs, low clubs
1.2 scoop outs, non-club Q or J

So maybe 4.0 outs to scoop and 5.5 outs for half the pot is a better way to figure your outs. if you want to insist your half pot outs are worth half the scoop outs, then you have about the equivalent of 6.75 scoop outs. (I'd count the half pot outs as worth less than the scoop outs, but I don't feel like quibbling about it).

But those outs involving aces and kings are very iffy.

What it boils down to, in my humble opinion, is you don't have enough stuff to continue with a check/call after the flop.

I think you either make a move (bluff) on the flop or you check/fold. Once you decide not to bluff the flop (probably a wise decision), then I don't think you have enough to call, because you're simply not going to connect often enough on the turn.

That's all on the basis of your folding on the turn if you don't get a turn card you're hoping to catch...[ QUOTE ]
an Ace, or a high club (9c, Qc, or Jc). Decent cards are the other clubs, kings, queens, and jacks.

[/ QUOTE ]If you're going to fold on the turn without one of the cards you specified, then you should fold instead on the flop.

Buzz