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Old 06-16-2007, 09:07 AM
Apanage Apanage is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 958
Default Re: Mr. Gatorade’s Lies cost me over 70k at Full Tilt

No they weren´t and therefore it is right to confiscate 70 000 dollars?

This matter has bothered me a lot and it is not from a poker perspective it is from a human perspective.
I'll admit that there is a great possibility that BeatMe1 is a bot but...

It all started with that MR.Gatorade named a number of players at Full Tilt that he was accusing of being bots. Gehrig started a post about the Full tilt bots and the accusations escalated.
Following things were said about the bots:

1.They all shared a timing tell and made strange pauses when confronted with real easy decisions like calling a 3-bet preflop.
2.They didn´t play against each other but would play great HU players like The Bryce.
3.They would all open a table but never sit down when a table already was open.
4.Their stats seemed to be very much alike.
5.They are almost never using the chat.

All the evidence we have of these characteristics is what the bot hunters present for us.
And seeing the evidence presented before us makes it of course convincing that they are bots.

BUT several posters that claim that they have played against BeatME1 says that he doesn´t have a timing tell.
The Bryce that had played the bots said that in least three cases he did not believe that they were bots for several reasons.
The player stats presented were from very small samples and the four players that were accused played at different levels. Two of them had played most of their hands below 30/60 and two of them had played most of their hands above 30/60.
This also means that the fact that they don´t play against each other lose a little bit of strength.
Posters also started claiming that they had chatted with several of the accused bots and suddenly MR.Gatorade backed down and said that it was possible that the bot owners sat at the computer at the time. Very plausible indeed but why did he bring up the lack of chatting as a botspotter to begin with then?
So we can easily say that MRGatorade and Gehrig very well could be right that all of the seplayers are bots but they have definitely not presented evidence for it.Especially not in BeatMe1:s case since he didn´t have a timing tell according to several posters.

Like BeatMe1 says. MRGatorade is a witch hunter and he really earns his nickname Crazy Mike. When he was confronted by BeatMe1 Crazy Mike replied that he couldn´t reveal any evidence he had of BeatMe1 being a bot, because that would compromize the fight against the robots. But at his website and in his posts he has said that the bots always takes 1.25 seconds to respond and made a lot of other detailed explanations of the characteristics of the bots.
Does not that qualify as giving important detailed information to bot owners?
Since MRGatorade is the one responsible for Full Tilt starting the investigation it is also reasonable to think that his ”evidence” has been examined by Full Tilt and that they have been influenced by them.
I`m not that convinced that Full Tilts experts have the competence to make a correct investigation in every case that they handle (again we can look at the Poker Stars example and see that the competence of handling these matters not always exists). Someone could easily put holes in their investigation if they only got a chance to argue against it.
But we will never know will we?

To end this long post I´m also amazed that bot owners are bright enough to create a bot that beats Great HU players but are dumb enough:

1. To play with several bots that perform in the same way at tables with a very small player population where this would be spotted within a couple of days.
2. To program the bots so that they have a timing tell.
3. To keep 70 000 dollars in an account that they must know could be seized any day
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