[Clarkmeister]

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B) No table game in Vegas holds less than 5-10%. Just like in poker, most players play badly.

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I think we can all agree that in general table games do pretty well for the house. And if Awada just said the profit from poker is anemic compared to what equivalent utilized table games in that space would bring in, there'd be less controversy. We'd still be arguing over whether there'd actually be more or less incremental profit for the casino (when they have 50 tables and never have more than 30 going outside of major holidays anyway, replacing the poker room with another 10 BJ games isn't going to help).

But could we make the same argument about restaurants? Do they bring as much per square foot as table games? And the curio shops? And whatever else is in and around the casino that isn't gaming? Replace all that with gaming space! Well, no, that isn't how it works. You NEED those other things.

I'm a bit curious... does a poker room bring in more $ than a restaurant would for the casino if placed in that space? People keep comparing poker to other table games and slots. But I see poker as the something of the equivalent of restaurants and shopping--one of those ancillary things the casinos have to have to get a certain set of people to visit.

I just took particular umbrage at Awada's statement that poker players are undercharged. *I* am not undercharged. I pay more per hour to play poker than I do to put my $3 passline bets down at Casino Royale.

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Good post. It's hard to do apples to apples, but Poker makes more than most restaurants in most places. It makes more than retail, in most places. There are obviously exceptions in some of the Vegas high-end casinos, but that's the rule is my guess.

Poker is virtually impossible to compare to anything in this discussion though. Yes, there are ancillary revenue streams. Poker is really difficult to run well though. The customer base is extraordinarily difficult. Margins are usually very low, and this is in Vegas where there's a low tax rate. Margins are anemic outside of AC, LV and Mississippi.

When people talk about pricing, it's not the same as, say, craps. In craps, in the long run, the house is the only one "taking money off the table". Not the case in poker obviously. I've always thought that a good 30-60 or higher pro in Vegas basically got one of the all-time great deals in any business. Overhead of $16/hr including tips for an earn of say $50/hr plus free food and drinks. That's a gross profit margin of almost 75% with side benefits. There isn't a small business owner in the country that wouldn't be thrilled with that. I've always been thrilled at how cheap midlimit is in Vegas.