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Old 03-21-2007, 11:52 AM
halhal halhal is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 18
Default Re: 2 big multiway razz hands

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There is so much hand-waving nonsense here. Should I even bother?

Going back at least to the publication of HFAP weak players have misused the concept of pot-manipulation to justify passive play.

If you really think your EV is higher by keeping the pot to ~7.5 rather ~13.5 bets on 3rd when you hold a smooth 7 against a 9 up (!!) and a guy whose range may be as weak as any 9 or better (and is certainly not stronger than any 8 or better)... you are probably too much in love with your own confused interpretation of Sklansky to listen to an actual argument from logic.

Let me put it this way, I'll lay 2:1 on any reasonable $ amount that your Divine Authority (Sklansky) will agree with me that flat-calling here is a misapplication of the concept of pot manipulation and that jamming is clearly correct.

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I've got agree with you here. When you KNOW you have the best hand you gotta jam. You are also giving yourself the rights odds to call if you draw bad and your opponent draws good on 4th.(which if you have a great hand anyway, could be a call on 4th even if it was only raised once on 3rd - say your opponent now shows 89)

It is those times when you don't know what you are up against, or where your starters are probably close to each other where neither is a big favorite pre-flop, that you might just call and then fold on 4th if you draw bad and your opponent draws good.

Otherwise, reraise when you KNOW you have the best hand and what will happen? If you both draw bad or draw good, you're still ahead with more money in the pot. If you draw good and he draws bad, you're even more ahead with more money in the pot or the possibility of slow-playing and trying to get bigger bets on later streets. So about 25% of the time you will draw bad and he will draw good and you'll be behind or close to even if he started with a 9. You don't want to give your opponent the chance to FOLD correctly if there was no reraise on 3rd, that 75% or more of the time you are ahead.

Also, in a multi-way pot, if you had four players seeing 4th for one bet each, the low board bets, and two of them fold, you might consider calling if you catch bad, because of the dead money in the pot: i.e. the pot is the same size as if there was a re-raise on 3rd and you were heads up.
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