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Old 03-06-2007, 06:36 PM
Tom Bayes Tom Bayes is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 891
Default Re: Draw Comments Can Go Here

OK, here are my quick takes (although I'm not really the target audience for your article).

1. I don't really ever remember hearing the misconception "You can't make money at draw". It's probably difficult to near-impossible to be a pro playing strictly draw (maybe bigpooch can do it, but I think he plays other games as well). I haven't tried, since I have a regular job and like to play draw tourneys since I like to find weird niche games [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

2. Most of the bad draw players (the curious newbies and the perpetual call stations and weak-tighties) tend to play the smallest games, but there are occasional donkey sightings in the bigger games, when a guy with a big bankroll and a big ego decides he wants to play draw. A few years ago, when I was playing Paradise cash games semi-regularly, there was a simply awful player who I'd play at whatever limit he wanted. He donked off money every day for a few weeks, then disappeared. You do have to be careful with game selection, since most of the regulars in higher games are decent or better and it can be hard to beat the rake, especially at the sites like Ongame that are raketraps.

3. PL 5CD donkaments are all about luck. There is no skill. Come flip coins with me [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Actually, I have a good track record in draw MTTs across several sites, although it took me a while to get accustomed to the more aggressive play and better tournament poker skills found at Stars. Planet Poker tends to attract incredibly passive play, B2B had dumb Swedish donkeys who pay off with anything, and Ongame was nice because lots of people would not take the rebuy/addon. In general, I think draw MTTs are +EV for people who have both decent 5CD fundamentals and are semi-competent at tournament strategy and can change gears as the blinds increase. A lot of old-school draw players can't/won't adjust to shallow stacks and a lot of new-school players try too many stupid bluffs and pay off with marginal hands and believe they have pot odds to make calls when they really don't.

4. MW's articles are the seminal work for online draw poker. Some of the posters in Other Poker have some quibbles and starting hand charts should never be played robotically, but most of the smallest games can be beat just playing Wiesenberg 101. Note-taking and figuring out your opponents is the next step.

5. Don't educate the fish! While this is trivial to 2+2ers, this really must be a misconception because so many players spew chips because they can't fold two low pair, a hand where you are usually SA/WB (slightly ahead/way behind).

6. I agree in general, but I have notes on players that it is not a good idea to cap low trips against. I haven't played as many Stars cash games as you, but I don't totally agree that " Many players have the misconception that a three-bet or cap means a monster in draw. That simply isn’t true. " From a sizable subset of your opponents, 3-bets and caps are monsters.

7. I'm guessing the variance in online draw is higher than the sort of standard deviations that Mason would find in the jacks-or-better Gardena games of a bygone era. I'm speculating, but the lack of physical tells and the general higher level of aggression online as opposed to live increases the variance in just about all forms of poker. 5CD has still got to be one of the lowest variance poker games out there, especially when compared to its degenerate cousin 2-7 Triple Draw Lowball.

8. Never bluffing is bad. Bluffing too much is bad. I'd like to have seen more guidance in determining when and how often to bluff, and when to use a game-theoretic approach of bluffing when you have certain hands or an exploitive approach to adjust for players that are too tight/too loose.

Another criticism is that you were never totally clear as to whether you were playing limit or PL draw, although I inferred that you were addressing limit draw. I think bluffing and playing come hands, along with bet sizing, is one of the main areas where one must think differently when playing PL or NL draw as opposed to limit.

In general, I liked the article and I'm happy to have seen a draw article. Your grade: A- [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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