Re: J9o call down
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aaronw,
folding the turn is bad. there's 5 bets in the pot when it's our action and we have 4 outs for the win and i think our jacks and nines are also good most of the time (a drawy flop like this opens up villain's check/raising range quite a bit).
i'd be fine giving ourselves close to the full 10 outs here but i'm sure a reduction to 8 or so because of the flush and chance they actually have a T is probably fine. implied odds on the river and a chance they don't fire the third barrel with a missed draw i think justify seeing the river.
i'll admit it's closer than i originally thought, though, after looking at the pot-size (lol, sorry just seemed automatic to me)
bbbushu
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I'll go back to my original statement:
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If you're showing this down, you absolutely have to raise the river. The extra 1 BB investment to knock out a hand like Ax/Kx and buy you an entire pot (7 BB) is huge. Otherwise, fold the turn.
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I'll admit to not playing much HU poker, and perhaps I've got it wrong, but the following lines don't make sense to me:
1) A turn call plus river fold (ie, you're just drawing)
2) a turn call plus river call (ie, playing showdown value on J-high)
I don't think you can give yourself 10 full outs here. If you think villain could be on a draw, then board texture usually indicates a flush draw, but could also be a straight draw (98/86/65) or (given the super-loose read) a gutshot draw (J9/96/85). Against the flush draw, you have only 8 outs. Against the straight draws, you often only have 7 outs. Against a pair, you're pretty good, and you get 10 outs. I still want to discount your 9 outs slightly, but your J outs are pretty clean.
I would say you've got 7-8 outs and this is a thin call on a draw. Although, now that I think about it more, the read on villain gives you 1 BB in implied odds, making a turn call/river fold slightly more appealing to me, and even acceptable... As I said, I don't play much HU.
But I still think call/call is a terrible line.
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