OK, every1, please take your flaming elsewhere. This thread is for a proper discussion of minraise strategy.
Personally, I think there are VERY few spots where a minraise is effective. The times I DO like it, are for value with a monster vs a moran, as a cheap bluff in a rr pot, minraise/folding rivers for thin value, and to get value preflop when you're not giving villain set value. As I'm sure most of you have realised, limon has incorperated minraising into his game to form a sort of strategy (for lack of a better word).
Pros of minraises:
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Gets value of marginal holdings
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Screws with TAGs heads
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Is a very cheap bluff
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Can buy you a very cheap card in position
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Buys information at a low price
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Can be used as a value bluff (as shown in
this thread)
Cons of minraising:
[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] If you have a good hand, it sets a cheap price for your opponent to outdraw you
[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Re-opens the betting to get pushed off your draw
[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Sets a cheap price for your opponent to call you when you are bluffing
[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Seems fishy, so players might 3bet you light so the information you gain uisn't too valuable
[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Bloats the pot when you do it with an average holding (as so many fish do)
If any1 can add more pros and cons, PLEASE DO. As I only spent a few mins coming up with these.
One BIG problem I find with minraises is that basically, you are either doing it for value or as a bluff, and if you're doing it for value, your opponent has really good odds and if you're doing it as a bluff, then you're making it VERY tempting for oppoennts to continue.
Here is a thread where I actually LIKE a minraise (for reasons I explained in the thread). However, you'll see a lot of very good posters/players say that they will call a minraise and expect a lot of opponents to call a minraise with JJ/TT etc.
I think that opponents calling your minraise bluffs with a lot of hands on the flop is a double edged sword. On the plus, it means you can 2 barrel and have got "value" from your bluff, onthe other hand, you might not always want to 2 barrel, you are unsure of his range for calling flop and it commits you to making a pretty damn big pot with air.
So here ESPECIALLY is where I would like some of your imput limon. As part of your minraising strategy, do you find yourself 2/3 barelling a lot? Or do you minraise at 1st primarilly for value, and then start to use it for bluffs more as your opponents adjust? How do you counteract the fact it gives your opponents lovely odds?
Limon, I know it might seem I'm "calling you out" a bit in this thread, but I can assure you I'm not. You seem to be the person around here that knows the most about minraises, how to use them and how to handle them and so I'm simply trying to learn for my benefit and for every1's around here from some1 on a subject where you seem to know a lot more than us.
With that in mind, I'm going to take 2 threads where you suggested to minraise, where I think it looked pretty bad spots for doing so, but you never really fully explained yourself, and i was wondering if (when you get the time and as well as contributing to this thread if possible), you could expand on your reasons for liking the minraise in that spot.
Here you say that you like minraise 4betting/folding. Now are the game conditions that you play in really such that you don't have enough equity vs his range to call a shove? And why do you want to give odds to any PP to call for set value?
Here you say that you like a min c/r, bet small on turn/river then fold to a shove on any street. Well, if your min c/r is caled on the flop, the pot will be $71.5 with just $63 behind. Where exactly do you think you're getting away once you've led the turn? So my problem there is that if villain has AJ+, you're making it VERY easy for him to stack you (he has to be pretty stupid to 3bet the flop). this is a clear spot of wheere I HATE a minraise, as it build a big pot with a bad hand.
Anyway, I know this thread is rather jumbled, but if every1 could please post there thoughts here and keep flaming away, it would be most appriciated.
Thanks