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Old 07-12-2006, 04:52 PM
younghov17 younghov17 is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,678
Default Re: Understanding \"Small Pot\" and \"Value Bet\" conflict

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in no limit sometimes u must risk giving free cards in order to control the pot.

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This is an enormously overrated, absolutely correct statement, IMO. The "free card" is dangerous, yes, and a lot of players have it in their heads that giving a free card with a hand that figures to be ahead is a mortal sin that will earn you a one-way ticket to hell (read: poker failure).

I don't see this to be true. Pot control is so important, even with one-pair hands, and often trumps the principle of "protecting our hand" in importance. Here's an example:

Youre playing 100NL and open to 4 with AA from position and get two callers. The flop is J35. Check to you. You bet 8 and get one caller. There are now 28 in the pot. What do you put your caller on? A J is likely, but given the board, your opponent could be putting you to the test with any pocket pair, or a hand liek A5s or A3s knowing that from positino you could easily have AQ-AK, AT, KQ, etc. Your opponet could also have 46s or 24s, which you wouldn't want to give a free card to. Or your opponent could have JJ, 55, 33, or 35, in which case you're in some [censored].

The turn is a 9, same suit as the J. Your opponent checks, what should you do? I'd advocate checking as your standard play. Some would say this is dangerous. Now there are two straight draws on board and a flush draw. Or, if opponent has a hand liek 46 or 24, you're giving a free card. So shouldn't you bet to protect your hand?

I dont think so. It's unlikely that opponent picked up a flush draw with the 9, since the 9 is the same suit as the J. QT is highly unlikely for villain, and while 46 is in his range it's not as likely as a PP or a jack. Villain can also have 99, JJ, 55, 33, 35, or J9, in which case a check makes perfect sense to try to get you to value bet. If you bet and get raised, what the hell are you going to do now? You bet 22 and get popped to 50? now you're facing a 28 dollar raise with 100 in the pot. Can you fold? What about on the river? Even here, you rhand has showdown value, but you dont want ot get stacked with one pair.

IF you check the turn behind, you're not ever going to get stacked by a huge hand. BUT NOT ONLY THAT, you're also giong to extract value from a whole world of marginal hands. A5s, 88, 77, and also weak jacks are all the types of hands that fold to turn bets. They'll likely check the river and call an extra value bet thinkign your FOS if a blank peels off on the end. OR, people who were just floating the flop might fire a barrel as a bluff on the river which you can gladly call, OR some might think abotu value betting TT. OR, a set fires his value bet at you, you call, and he wins a pot thats much smaller than it could have been.

In general I dont think betting three streets with one pair is a good idea, and when checking the turn is likely to induce action from inferior hands, and control the pot against huge ones, I think it's something you need to really think about. If you think I'm out o fmy mind, try it and see how well it works.

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ni the example hand you layed out, id actually have to say that is a turn you should bet. the pot is not big and the board is great.

generally when your considering whether to bet or check behind 1 important think that should always be on your mind is:

if faced with a good sized riverbet if i check behind on the turn am i going to call

if yes its usually better to bet the turn, if not you should check behind
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