50NL Weak made hand
 

This is such an easy hand I bet for most people, but I really want to know the ins and outs of why I'm doing things.

What I want to know is how much to be betting on every street against your average donk. Do I want to be potting the flop to chase out overcards or do I only want to half-pot it because I want to control the size of the pot with a marginal hand that could get killed on the turn?


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em (NL$50) <font color="#0000FF">(6 handed)</font> link

CO ($65.52)
Button ($72.21)
SB ($48.50)
Hero ($75.48)
UTG ($25.65)
MP ($52.05)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, CO calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, SB calls $0.25, Hero checks.

Flop: ($2.00) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $1.90</font>, UTG calls $1.90, CO folds, SB folds.

Turn: ($5.80) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $4.00</font>, UTG calls $4.00.

River: ($13.80) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $8.00</font>, UTG calls $8.00.

Final Pot: $29.80.

Re: 50NL Weak made hand
 

Emmit,

My "standard value bet calling stations" line is something like 2/3, 3/4, 1/2-2/3. In this specific case that you have in this hand, you can go a bit smaller with your flop bet because it is a very dry board and you dont have a great hand. In this case I wouldve bet closer to 1/2 pot. Questions?

Re: 50NL Weak made hand
 

That mostly answers it.

I thought that betting the pot would give worse odds to overs and chase them out more so I thought then if an over came on the turn [somewhat likely] I could have a slightly easier situation, but I guess swelling the pot would make it harder also so I would conclude that halfpot is better now.

Re: 50NL Weak made hand
 

The next step is to factor your reads and table image into your bet size as well. I was sitting with a guy last night who would literally call you down with any piece of the flop, no questions asked. 1/2 pot, full pot, he was calling. So you can guess that if I had the hand that you posted against that guy, Im not betting 1/2 or 3/4, Im betting pot every time.

Re: 50NL Weak made hand
 

Hey,

I've got a few questions to lead on from this.

Emmitt &amp; i already discussed the flop bet, however i wanted to question the forum about two bet sizes.

Anyhow the board is clearly dry so i have these questions:

$2 bet ok if it was 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ?

What if its 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

and what if its 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I assume then answer to 1 &amp; 3 is yes, we want to protect/charge the draws.

However number 2 for potential OESDs or two pair if they limp T9 etc im un sure about.

Re: 50NL Weak made hand
 

I would make a 3/4 to full pot bet on every one of your example boards.

Re: 50NL Weak made hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
I thought that betting the pot would give worse odds to overs and chase them out more....

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you want to chase out an inferior drawing hand? Profitability comes from people making mistakes. You want someone with two overcards to incorrectly pay too high a price and call. "Too high a price" includes the implied odds that, if something like a king turns, you're going to have some difficulties from that point on. But trying to push drawing hands out of pots in a ring game is a mistake.

I know I'm just a NL newbie practically quoting Miller chapter-and-verse, so someone else point out what I'm missing.

Re: 50NL Weak made hand
 

OP,

You line is fine. If you always bet 3/4 or full pot (ahem Grunch) you would not be missing or losing much EV becuase your hand is unreadable, which may be more important than worrying about trying to properly size your bets.

Let's face it, most donks see a $10 bet and associate it as $10, not 1/2, 2/3 or 3/4 pot.

As far as proper bet sizing goes:
Villain read &gt; Board texture

Re: 50NL Weak made hand
 

Yeah good point. When I first started NL, I always bet pot on the flop if I was leading out. Its the best way to start and then once you get more comfortable with NL play you can start changing up your bet sizes some.