Live 20/40 Gar vs. Pro Part 3
 

Location: Bay 101 in San Jose, CA
Stakes: $20/$40
Players: Aggressive table, but not tricky. I, along with Pro and another or 2 players who came from broken table come to this one. Seems looser than before, but in terms of quality, still average *** of 5. However, Pro was smart enough to take position on me when moving to the new table.

Principal players:

HJ – Me.

CO – Pro. Has been pretty tight aggressive and well, but has just suffered two bad beats recently. I don’t know if this has really been affecting Pro, but I can kind of see steam coming out of Pro’s ears.

SB – Unknown loose player.

BB – LAG player who had been steaming not too long ago due to some bad breaks. Called for new set up, scramble, yadda yadda. Agitated.

Preflop action: (1.5 small bets, 9 players) Folds to me in HJ and look left to see if there are any storms brewing… nope not yet. I find A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and raise. As usual my radar is way off, CO 3-bets, SB and BB cold-call. I comment “Lovely” as I put in my $20.

Flop action: (12 small bets, 4 players) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Check to CO who bets, SB calls, BB calls, I check-raise and all call.

Turn action: (10 big bets, 4 players) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Check to me, I bet, CO calls, SB folds, BB calls.

River action (13 big bets, 3 players) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] BB checks, I check???

All comments appreciated, results to come.

Garland

Re: Live 20/40 Gar vs. Pro Part 3
 

Preflop is pretty awful.

Bet the river because you probably have the best hand and they might get suspicious that you missed a draw. Also you described BB as lag and he's done nothing but call, and CO should have put in a raise somewhere with any hand that beats yours.

Re: Live 20/40 Gar vs. Pro Part 3
 

Bet to keep from getting bluffed off the best hand. Fold to a raise.

Re: Live 20/40 Gar vs. Pro Part 3
 

at this point I would have to say that by your judgement of the BB, he was probably on a draw and felt priced in after your c/r, I would factor him out and take the check as a sign of a miss. I would put CO's bet on the flop as a standard play since he 3-bet pf with 2 cold players behind him, probably trying to assert a mid pair and isolate himself with you (which obviously didn't work). I'd say you have the best of it here and I think a bet is in order because there is no way CO wouldn't have raised on the turn if he were holding a premium pair or strong ace. I like a bet here, at worst a check call assuming BB is going to fold. Fold to a raise.

Re: Live 20/40 Gar vs. Pro Part 3
 

Preflop is pretty marginal, folding is better there.

Heads up and I'm betting this river for sure. But you are still 3-way, and it's a little thin since there is a decent chance somebody has an ace with a better kicker. Depends on opponent reads and how they would play an ace, so far nobody's said anything postflop so it's a close value bet.

Re: Live 20/40 Gar vs. Pro Part 3
 

The one problem with a check is something that I did a few sessions ago. I check the river, the player next to me bets, and I have a marginal hand that I think is good, and am ready to call when the player in between us randomly check raises me, making me fold, and winning the hand with a worse hand than me.

Re: Live 20/40 Gar vs. Pro Part 3
 

How is nobody talking about this flop c/r?

You have a bet and two callers and are hoping for what now? That everyone has either a K or a draw?

And what are we putting CO on after he calls your flop c/r? How about the turn bet?

Re: Live 20/40 Gar vs. Pro Part 3
 

[ QUOTE ]
How is nobody talking about this flop c/r?

You have a bet and two callers and are hoping for what now? That everyone has either a K or a draw?

And what are we putting CO on after he calls your flop c/r? How about the turn bet?

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Agreed, this hand stinks from early on. PF raise is pretty LAGgy; I need at least the CO if not button to open A3o.

The flop c/r is optimistic at best, spewy at worst. If you're playing A3o against a PF 3-bet, I think you probably want to hit a 3 or a wheel. A pair of aces isn't promising here, and with a K on board it's even less promising since you can't beat KK either. Unless you have a read that CO would c-bet QQ on an AK board, or 3-bet KQ PF, I think you're in trouble and can c/c the flop, then c/f the turn. Who cares about BB; it's CO I'm worried about.

Thoughts and results...
 

Thoughts:

In my opinion the debatable streets are pre-flop and river. Here's a street-by-street analysis:

Pre-flop: Obviously my pre-flop decision was iffy. I definitely don't raise that hand from that position all the time. I contend if it's ok to raise from CO, it can't be absolutely horrible to do it from HJ. That said, I think it's better to fold it pre-flop. Enough said.

Flop: Interesting street. From playing with Pro long enough, I knew for certain a continuation bet was coming, no if ands or buts. Here's why I think a check-raise is superior to check-calling:

(1) I knew that Pro could not afford to wait with a monster like AK, KK or even a big A to pop me on the turn with the two other players left to act. If Pro had a big hand, a 3-bet was coming to attempt to blow the competition away (or charge max $$) and I have an easy, easy fold knowing I could be drawing dead.

(2) If Pro had QQ, JJ, TT or other pockets like that, one of two things will happen: One, Pro would be hard pressed to continue with these pockets without a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], and then I buy my position, which would be nice. Two, I am charging these pocket pairs an extra bet to draw to a set.

(3) I didn't hear from SB or BB after CO raised, so I don't believe they have me beaten, or at the least they don't have a hand they are confident in, like A8s or something like that. A flop check-raise and turn continuation bet may actually get a better A off thinking I could have AK, and only peeling to see their kicker. However, I don't really believe anybody else had an A, but it's possible.

(4) I did not want to chance a turn check through, nor donk the turn. Yes, the flop check-raise was the way to go.

Turn: Easy continuation bet and fold to a raise. I put Pro on QQ or JJ to peel for the gutter, which Pro had odds to do. Maybe Pro had something like KQ/KJ.

River: I believed that CO would not call a bet, and BB would only call with a curious A better than mine, so the value was slim and I checked.

To pope: I don't think I have to worry about CO betting, BB check-raising to get me off a better hand because it simply doesn't happen around here. If it did happen, I was beaten.

Results:

Pro checked behind. BB had T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] for the winner. Pro later claimed QQ.

Thanks for your thoughts,

Garland

Re: Thoughts and results...
 

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(2) If Pro had QQ, JJ, TT or other pockets like that, one of two things will happen: One, Pro would be hard pressed to continue with these pockets without a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], and then I buy my position, which would be nice. Two, I am charging these pocket pairs an extra bet to draw to a set.

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You are getting him to make a correct a fold, or, when has a club, a correct call that puts you in a terrible spot bc you have no information. And I don't really see what is so nice about having position in this scenario.

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(3) I didn't hear from SB or BB after CO raised, so I don't believe they have me beaten, or at the least they don't have a hand they are confident in, like A8s or something like that.

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Why on earth do you not believe they have you beaten? Your flop c/r is showing a ton of strength, and I assume SB is passive as well as loose, so he'd be going into c/c mode for sure. Not to mention laggy steaming BB who might decide to 3b a draw or worse, and then what are you doing?

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A flop check-raise and turn continuation bet may actually get a better A off thinking I could have AK, and only peeling to see their kicker.

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ROFLOL... A loose player and a LAG on a coordinated board?

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However, I don't really believe anybody else had an A, but it's possible.

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Unless you had some live instinct read (and by your own admission your live instincts are prone to error), you have no evidence for thinking this.

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Yes, the flop check-raise was the way to go.

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I think it was by far worst mistake in the hand.