boat loses to quads, oh noes!
 

Sorry about the somewhat rare hand. I know they're rare, but we've all seen them, so they can't be THAT useless to discuss.

Live 10/20.

Loose player limps, tight player limps, aggro player raises, villain three-bets, I cap my SB, bb folds, limpers fold, aggro calls and villain calls.

Villain is stuck I think, and he has limped twice in the last bit with AQo, but he normally raises those hands, but he's stuck and not happy about it. He frequently misses value on the river and once checked throguh the turn with a straight because the board paired and he was afraid of a full house, which was kinda weak. He folded a set on the river to me earlier also I think, after I three-bet him and he called me with JJ on a AKJQX board.

However, afaik he also thinks I'm bluffy from previous sessions and I don't think he's actually seen me win a session, maybe once but I'm not sure. This guy's pretty bad, he's not an uberfish or whatever, but he's too loose pf and too timid post-flop.

He's previously raised stuff like 44/55 in early, generally folds a lot of hands if it's raised in front of him, but generally folds a lot if it's raised in front of him. He'll limp along with stuff like 32s. He frequently raises and calls 3-bets with JJ.

Anyways, PF action as described above. I have K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Pot is 15.5 sb.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I bet, aggro dude folds, and villain calls.

Turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I bet, he calls.

River: 6 of bricks

I bet, he raises.

I hesitate and try to put him on some hands that I'm ahead of enough to three-bet. I figure there's maybe aa, ak, some flushes, aj, and maybe something like KJ or backing into a boat on the turn but I wouldn't think so. Anyways, I sorta laugh sourly and raise. He makes it 4 bets and I call.

Did I put in the correct amount of action here?

Thing that bugs me is that I run into fish all the time that frequently will slowplay quads to the river but slowplay trips to the turn, and bet out open pairs on paired boards. It's like the default fishy player MO or something.

Re: boat loses to quads, oh noes!
 

i think this is about the right amount of action, yea. sorry you got a lame beat [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: boat loses to quads, oh noes!
 

Just be glad he decided to slowplay to the river. I'm guessing you would have lost a lot more if he hadn't.

Re: boat loses to quads, oh noes!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just be glad he decided to slowplay to the river. I'm guessing you would have lost a lot more if he hadn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I've been thinking about that, we'd go at least 4 bets on the turn... but after that, I don't know if I really would have lost more than that. So, 4 turn bets + 1 river bet = 1 turn bet + 4 river bets...

I don't know really how it could have turned out differently, except that if he only slowplayed to the turn he wouldn't have had a chance to call a river 3 bet on K river.

edit: not sure about the benefits of raising vs the rest of my range on the turn vs river, though.

Re: boat loses to quads, oh noes!
 

i reckon results will bias this. you dont think this can be a flush? I'd probably lose more bets than this but then again what would I know..I dont play live where u can actually get real reads etc etc, much less 10/20.

so for the sake of discussion I say raise again with 2nd nuts before calling a 6bet river.

Re: boat loses to quads, oh noes!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thing that bugs me is that I run into fish all the time that frequently will slowplay quads to the river but slowplay trips to the turn, and bet out open pairs on paired boards. It's like the default fishy player MO or something.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think this is spot on.

i'm happy with around 6bb going in on the big streets. that's one cap and a bet/call. so in your case i think it's fine.

Re: boat loses to quads, oh noes!
 

I would have 5 bet the river. It is far more likely that he has a hand we beat than the only hand we don't. Villain would play KJ this way as well as pocket 4s and pocket 6s. A flush is possible but less likely. The result this time is a bad beat, but don't play top full passively in the future because of this one hand.

Re: boat loses to quads, oh noes!
 

I would 5-bet the river as well, this could easily be a flush.
Sick beat [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: boat loses to quads, oh noes!
 

I put in way more action on the river, there are so many hands he can have especially if you say he's tilting. a flush, AJ, KJ, 44, 66. I may go as much as 5 bet and call a 6th. You have the second nuts with only 1 card combination beating you.

Re: boat loses to quads, oh noes!
 

This hand is reason 1a. why you should fastplay the flop.

This is tough because live players frequently slowplay the nuts and only the nuts til the river. I think a lot of whether you 5 bet or not depends on table conditions that you can't explain to us on a message board.

Actually it doesn't sound like AJ, KJ, 44, or 66 is really in this villian's preflop range, even his "tilt range". I think I'd just call.