NL100: KK on a scary board. Am I missing a VB on the river here?
 

Vilain is 28/5/.6 over about 100 hands. With a one card straight and a three flush on board, along with set or two pair combos, should we still VB on the river or is checking behind the better play. I think we would have a hard time calling a c/rrai here, right?

Full Tilt Poker, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 8 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

BB: $94.60
UTG: $100
Hero (UTG+1): $130.70
MP1: $47.50
MP2: $117.25
CO: $35.55
BTN: $22.40
SB: $95.75

Pre-Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG+1)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $4</font>, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $4, CO calls $4, 2 folds, BB calls $3

Flop: ($16.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $12</font>, 2 folds, BB calls $12

Turn: ($40.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $22</font>, BB calls $22

River: ($84.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero ?

P.S.: Is the size of the turn bet ok or should it be a little bigger, like 26 - 29?

Re: NL100: KK on a scary board. Am I missing a VB on the river here?
 

Bet 28 on the turn and probably check the river behind; such a coordinated middle-ish board (1 card straight, flush) has many hands tarping you; you only beat Q/K/AJ or QQ here that's gonna call your vbet and your gonna beat.

Re: NL100: KK on a scary board. Am I missing a VB on the river here?
 

I'm with effen here. 28 on the turn seems good, and I might bet a bit more on the flop too. Check behind on the river. I don't think you're getting value here and it'll be good to see what he called with. Also, WTF is up with 3 callers preflop? lol

Re: NL100: KK on a scary board. Am I missing a VB on the river here?
 

I check turn and call most river bets and if he checks I valuebet, dont want to get CR here on turn.

Re: NL100: KK on a scary board. Am I missing a VB on the river here?
 

This is fine. Check the river for sure. I'd cbet for like $15 though.

Re: NL100: KK on a scary board. Am I missing a VB on the river here?
 

I'm checking the turn to control the size of the pot. A good chunk of the hands that would just call a bet on the turn have you beat with the exception of a pair with the Ad or something like QdJ. A player with a straight or a set might also c/c here hoping for a non-diamond river / boat-up.

After checking the turn behind, this is a good river to value bet after he checks into you. A straight/set/flush would most likely bet and hands like Ad + pair or AJ/KJ/QJ are usually checking hoping for a free showdown and they might call a value bet.

As played:
He has something on the turn (draw or made hand). Since he is pretty passive over your sample, I could easily see villian c/c a set or a straight on this board (afraid of the flush). Because of this, I don't think there is any value in betting the river, since every hand that missed is folding and you would be getting called by better hands more oftetn.

Re: NL100: KK on a scary board. Am I missing a VB on the river here?
 

I probably check turn.

Definitely check river.

Re: NL100: KK on a scary board. Am I missing a VB on the river here?
 

Wouldn't checking the turn invite villain to bet pretty much every river and give us a hard time calling?
That's in fact a general question: Shouldn't we bet some scary turn like this one hoping to be able to check river behind and therefore be able to show our hand down?
In contrast to check turn and then call river?

Re: NL100: KK on a scary board. Am I missing a VB on the river here?
 

check the river, no value left. The turn card is terrible, but I would only check behind if we were willing to call a PSB on the river....against this villian I think this was the cheapest way we could get to a showdown.

Re: NL100: KK on a scary board. Am I missing a VB on the river here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't checking the turn invite villain to bet pretty much every river and give us a hard time calling?
That's in fact a general question: Shouldn't we bet some scary turn like this one hoping to be able to check river behind and therefore be able to show our hand down?
In contrast to check turn and then call river?

[/ QUOTE ]

Our hand have good SD value plus a draw, no big need to protect our hand, if we are behind we get a chance to improve on river and if we are ahead I rather potcontrol it and get blufvalue on river.

EDIT: If we take this line we pretty much have to call the river