Whats the rule?
 

1/2NL Theres some action pre-flop, 5 players to the flop, BB checks MP1 bets $26, MP2 all in for a total of $37, LP says raise and makes it $66 total. I'm on the button and look at him a lil confused and say wait you cant raise that, you can only call the all-in bet. Because the all in bet of $37 from MP2 was not a full raise on the original bettors (MP1) $26.

First off is this correct? or can he raise here? if so what the min raise? $26 or $37

What is the correct ruling here on the action LP player can take?

I hope this is detailed enough and not to confusing I'm a little sleep deprived right now.

Just an add on what confused me was the way LP made his bet, he announced raise put out $26 (mp1's original bet) not $37 (MP2's all in) and raised $40 more for a total of $66.

Re: Whats the rule?
 

It is no limit. There is no limit to the amount you can raise. There is a minimum though.

Re: Whats the rule?
 

LP can raise since he hasn't acted yet. If everyone calls the $37 and it gets back to MP1, HE can't raise since he wasn't fully raised. LP was raised fully by MP2.

I think $66 is enough, but not sure.

Re: Whats the rule?
 

The original raise was $24. LP raised another $13 all-in but that should not affect the minimum raise amount of $24.

The next raise must make it at least $37 + $24 or $61.

Re: Whats the rule?
 

Think of it this way...

An all-in bet of less than a full raise is a CALL with a little bonus money.

Anybody who was able to RAISE following a CALL is still able to RAISE. The all-in does not provide magical protection to the betting. The only way nobody would be able to raise is if somebody was all-in for less than a full bet as the LAST person to act, ie everybody else had already bet and called. Since they couldn't raise themselves, they're limited to calling the all-in or folding.

To be crystal clear here, an all-in does not reduce anybody's options from what s/he would be able to do normally.

Re: Whats the rule?
 

This is LP's first action in this betting round. He has the following options: call for $37, raise a minimum to $37+$24 = $61 and up to all his chips.

Here is the reasoning and I will use a lot of what pfapfap correctly said. First, when a player has not yet acted in a betting round, he is free to choose to call or raise any action on him. He only becomes restricted after he uses his first action.

On to the raise amount. The bet is $24. There is an all-in after this bet which is $37. This is not a full raise so as pfapfap put it (and he may have stolen this from me btw :P ), it is a call on steroids. So LP needs to put in $24 (regular call) + $13 (steroids amount) and must raise by the full bet amount, which is $24 = $61.

Clear as mud?

Re: Whats the rule?
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is LP's first action in this betting round. He has the following options: call for $37, raise a minimum to $37+$24 = $61 and up to all his chips.

Here is the reasoning and I will use a lot of what pfapfap correctly said. First, when a player has not yet acted in a betting round, he is free to choose to call or raise any action on him. He only becomes restricted after he uses his first action.

On to the raise amount. The bet is $24. There is an all-in after this bet which is $37. This is not a full raise so as pfapfap put it (and he may have stolen this from me btw :P ), it is a call on steroids. So LP needs to put in $24 (regular call) + $13 (steroids amount) and must raise by the full bet amount, which is $24 = $61.

Clear as mud?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes very clear thanks to all of you for clearing it up.

I had been in a similar situation once before but the action had been on the original bettor and i believe he tried to raise after someone went all in for less then a minimum raise and there was a caller. Which as was stated above you can't do. So if you have not made an action yet you are free to call or raise, but if you had already made an action you can only call the all in. Got it, Thanks again!

Re: Whats the rule?
 

Right or wrong, some rooms will require a minraise in this situation to be to $74 straight.

Regardless of the house rule, the original bettor should have the full spectrum of fold/call/raise after LP makes a full legal raise.

Re: Whats the rule?
 

OK, I am confused and don't play a lot of NL. The $26 bet was the original bet post-flop. On this round, the minimum bet was $2, right, the amount of the BB. But after the original bettor this round made it $26, shouldn't the minimum raise here be $26, not $24?

Or is it the amount over the minimum, $24?

I would think the result should be $26 (original bet) plus $11 (steriods amount) plus another $26 for a total of $63.

I also thought that in some rooms, the LP raiser after the all in could just complete the raise to $52, but that might be some limit thinking creeping in.

Re: Whats the rule?
 

[ QUOTE ]
OK, I am confused and don't play a lot of NL. The $26 bet was the original bet post-flop. On this round, the minimum bet was $2, right, the amount of the BB. But after the original bettor this round made it $26, shouldn't the minimum raise here be $26, not $24?

Or is it the amount over the minimum, $24?

I would think the result should be $26 (original bet) plus $11 (steriods amount) plus another $26 for a total of $63.

I also thought that in some rooms, the LP raiser after the all in could just complete the raise to $52, but that might be some limit thinking creeping in.

[/ QUOTE ]
If it was my post that confused you it's my fault. In my post I should have said $26 instead of $24. So yes, the mininum raise by LP should be $63 as you stated. Nice catch.