10/25 tough river spot with JJ
 

villain is Boy from UB, I haven't played too much vs him but he seems to be one of the better regs, picking his spots to be aggressive in etc. 25/20/2.5ish stats. I haven't gotten too out of line on this table nor have I been tangling much.
Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $25 BB (5 handed) by Hand Converter CG

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

BB ($2949.50)
UTG ($2500)
Hero ($5405)
Button ($3640.50)
SB ($3266)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $75</font>, Button calls $75, SB folds, BB folds.

Flop: ($185) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $130</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $300</font>, Hero calls $170.

Turn: ($785) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $600</font>, Hero calls $600.

River: ($1985) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $1400</font>, Hero...

Re: 10/25 tough river spot with JJ
 

Meh i fold, you said he's one of the better regs, so he is probably like any competent player able to value bet say AXss on the river..It really looks like he wants a call. Also he pretty much knows what your hand is, and also if he did somehow overplay his a9 he just rivered you..

Also it probably doesnt count for much but whenever im in spots like this I also think JT is less likely cause I have two jacks.. just something small to consider.. annoying hand but in my opinion I think fold is best, you'll be beat more often then him showing up with 65s or JTs, etc..

edit: but then again there aren't many legit VB'ing hands he could have on that river.. Meh it's really close, now that I think more about it i might call and make a note on whatever he shows me, convinving myself that it's a good bluff card/hand faceup. Sorry for rambling post, interested to see what others say

Re: 10/25 tough river spot with JJ
 

Seems like a terrible card on turn for him to fire again on if he has a draw, that said asuming he reraises his big pairs preflop most of the time there are v few hands that is ahead of you on turn. On river he will probably follow through w pretty much all his bluffs/semibluffs but since he likely bets everytime he hit the A aswell it feels like a fold might be best. Calling is probably pretty close so i would often call mainly out of curiosity and invent a couple of new curses when he shows me 33. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: 10/25 tough river spot with JJ
 

wtf @ his small flop raise...I fold here with no real explanation other than I'm a nit

Re: 10/25 tough river spot with JJ
 

what the hell does his small flop raise mean?

Re: 10/25 tough river spot with JJ
 

Given how the rest of the hand was played, my guess is a set turned boat.

Re: 10/25 tough river spot with JJ
 

some guys i'd just snappler and others i'd fold real fast

Re: 10/25 tough river spot with JJ
 

[ QUOTE ]
wtf @ his small flop raise...I fold here with no real explanation other than I'm a nit

[/ QUOTE ]

i find this hand pretty interesting... for those who have or will comment on the hand, what rivers are you calling and what are you folding... because i play the hand like this often and then find a lot of reasons to fold a lot of different rivers and then get mad at myself for taking the same line again.

Re: 10/25 tough river spot with JJ
 

typically smart players do not bluff in this spot very much because a flush missed and the river is an insanely "obvious" bluff card. Of course, if you are both on this page then its a game theory he knows I know he knows situation, so "obvious" spot becomes irrelevant. But if two players don't really know each other and have history, but both think the other is pretty good, I find it that most likely people are not pulling a move here often enough to justify looking them up.

Re: 10/25 tough river spot with JJ
 

I don't know the villain, but I don't think the flop raise is strange. That size raise is usually my standard when I'm calling liberally in position, and want to play many different hands the same way. But given that, I think I would reraise the flop to about 800. That should stop all of his pure bluffs. It also puts him in a tough spot with a draw since by shoving he risks getting it all-in with only around 35-40% equity, and he is forced to waste his positional advantage by getting all-in. But a good player can certainly play QQ-AA like this, and they won't shove a hand that JJ ever dominates. So although it seems like we are turning JJ into a bluff, I don't think thats the case, and even if we do turn the hand into a bluff it may be a most EV way to play the hand. When he flat calls, I would check/fold a spade/K/A turn and c/r AI on a blank. You still get stacked by sets, but KK/QQ slows down on a A, and he may try a huge semibluff on the turn this way since he'll put you on a bluff usually but won't have enough showdown value to make taking a free card worth it. Thoughts on this line?

The river is pretty tough, but I agree with the previous poster that its closer to a fold since he doesn't know much about yourgame.