Live (B&M) 6/12 Lose rate
 

I made these back-of-the-napkin calculations/estimations recently, are they a reasonable estimation? Is it impossible to be profitable at 6/12 at these rates?

My local gaming establishments drop $4 / hand no matter what happens ($3 + $1 bad beat jackpot, but you only get that back if you win and should only average that in if you play an insane number of hands). Let's say I tip out an average of $2 / hand. Therefore at 35 hands / hr, $210 / hr is coming off the table. At a 10 player table that's $21 / player / hr. At the well-publicized max win rate of 1 big bet / hr a perfect player can therefore expect to lose $9 / hr playing at this game.

Re: Live (B&M) 6/12 Lose rate
 

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Let's say I tip out an average of $2 / hand.

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Do you hate money?

Re: Live (B&M) 6/12 Lose rate
 

a good player should be able to make more than 1BB/hr w/no rake.

Re: Live (B&M) 6/12 Lose rate
 

Ok, let's say I'm the only one at the table who asks for change for my $2 chip and tip $1 per hand, am I still losing $5.5 / hr?

Re: Live (B&M) 6/12 Lose rate
 

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a good player should be able to make more than 1BB/hr w/no rake.

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How much more? According to these numbers you need to make 2BB/hr just to have a small edge.

Re: Live (B&M) 6/12 Lose rate
 

A very good player can make 2bb/hr in a loose live game with rake. This rake structure is very steep however.

Re: Live (B&M) 6/12 Lose rate
 

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a good player should be able to make more than 1BB/hr w/no rake.

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How much more? According to these numbers you need to make 2BB/hr just to have a small edge.

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the "gold standard" of 1 BB/hr in general takes into account the high rake at a B&M cardroom. Thus, when a good player makes 1 BB/hr, with no rake he would make much more.

therefore your calculation is in error.

Re: Live (B&M) 6/12 Lose rate
 

My 6/12 game rakes 3 dollars (no flop no drop though), takes 1 dollar for the jackpots, and I tip 1 dollar per hand (unless I steal the blinds, in which case I don't tip if I don't like the dealer). Basically, it's almost exactly the same as OP's game.

Two things to consider OP:

1. You should be winning fewer pots than the average player at your table and thus "paying" less rake. This is because you are tighter preflop, presumably.

2. It's fine to tip 1 dollar a hand. Seriously. If they are dealing 35 hands an hour, you're saying those dealers are making $70 an hour, or 140K a year? I'm all for the dealers being well paid and all, but I think 35 bucks an hour + their actual (likely minimum) wage is plenty.

All that said, at my current game my goal has been to win 1BB per hour, after rake. In the last 100+ hours I'm right below that (like .9 or so), and believe that I'm running pretty averagely. I've done some calculations previously on the effect rake has at 3/6, 6/12, and 15/30 at my local card room (which all have the exact same rake structure), and trust me it is sobering to see. Work it out for yourself assuming a true win rate of 2BB per hour and standard rake (assuming 2 to 4 pots per hour), or search for my thread [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

My conclusion: At my local card room, 3/6 is practically unbeatable, but 6/12 can be handily crushed.

Re: Live (B&M) 6/12 Lose rate
 

Previous thread:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rt=all&vc=1

Re: Live (B&M) 6/12 Lose rate
 

awesome, thanks for the feedback! That is good info.