Timing Tells?
 

In another post someone mentioned the validity of timing tells.

Obviously this changes from player to player, but do you guys put any stock in them.

I never noticed anything when I was playing .5/1 up to 3/6 but I am noticing certain tendencies now.

Primarily.. when someone instapots a flop.... I usually find it to be a mediocre hand at best. Usually when someone flops the nuts at a higher level game they have to stop for at least a second to consider their plan for the hand. Suddenly you have three options.. bet, check raise, check call. Choosing should take more than a millisecond I'd expect. Of course this can't apply to every player.. but this is one I know I have used with success.

Likewise.. when the board pairs on the turn or river and someone instabets... I find the same thing. The natural thing to do is be deceptive... so people usually take a few seconds to bet trying to act apprehensive I guess.

Then there are more standard ones.. like a check-snapcall on flop is usually a weak draw type hand.

Any thoughts?

Re: Timing Tells?
 

Agree, snap calls are generally weakish. Draws or bad pair/two pair hands that don't want to commit too much.

Instabets on blank turns from OOP villians that checked the flop are usually very strong. ie missed c/r on flop.

Theres more but I have to go to class...I'll check back in a a few hours.

Re: Timing Tells?
 

lag and stuff really mess those timign tells up, having a good internet con helps tho =]
i dont rely on them too much

Re: Timing Tells?
 

Only reliable timing tell I ever use is that instant pot bets on the river when a non-obvious back door draw hits are almost always bluffs, but it is massively dependant on the player. A lot of PLO players don't think ahead as to what they will actually do on future streets if they improve or fail to improve so if you take a lot of notes you can pick up a lot of timing tell based info.

Re: Timing Tells?
 

Insta-call weakness seems to be somewhat valid, though I wouldn't put much stock in it.

I wouldn't rely much on the flop insta-bet as I try to do it consistently exactly so that no timing tells can be picked up (and I feel the majority of higher stakes players do this too).

So realistically, I don't put much stock into timing tells, but I will say this: A couple of months ago, I noticed that when I had 2 really strong hands that I turn check-raised the same opponent with (he folded both hands). he took an abnormally long time to fire out the continuation bet on the turn. I then made a small note that this might be a tell on him. A week later, the same thing happened on a turn continuation bet, and with trash, just to see if it was a valid tell, I raised the pot with air - he folded again. Since then, I have tried this move 10-20 times (which is actually not that much since we play HU a lot) and have never been caught bluffing. It's kinda cool that I seem to have discovered a legit online tell.

Re: Timing Tells?
 

I don't know about that sometimes I have instantly potted the flop with the nuts, especially when I think they will call me with a drawing hand. I don't have to think about what to do when I have the nuts. This seems to be more player dependant wouldn't you think? I tend to be slower when I have a drawing type hand and I have to think about my options.

Re: Timing Tells?
 

Unfortunately I do have some timing tells. Usually when I think for a very long time about a decision this means that I don't have the nuts. Does this mean sometimes when I have the nuts I should fake thinking for a long time? I hate doing that because it's so gay if you get called, but still...

Re: Timing Tells?
 

I TRY to take about 5 seconds for every play I make. That said.. I noticed a few times where I have gotten double or triple barreled by what I perceive to be good players after making fairly quick check calls. So it makes me wonder what stock my opponents put in it. Most won't be paying attention I am sure, but if you think someone else it might be exploitable.

Another very player dependant issue.. surprise surprise.

In the case Gordo brought up.. I know I tend to do that when I get check called. It takes me awhile to figure out what would check call, what I can represent, and what I can get to fold.

Re: Timing Tells?
 

Don't worry about it, most players who take forever before betting the pot DO have the nuts.
They stall to make it look like they have a tough decision, "woe is me, I don't know whether or not to bet my K9 on a KK9 flop, oh woe, oh woe" before betting the pot and praying someone actually falls for it and check raises AA.

Re: Timing Tells?
 

Sometimes situations arise when you have the nuts on the river for an example and. Now usually if i had a bluffing hand here i would have to think for a good minute or so trying. I try not to make the mistake to bet faster with my made hands on the river than my bluff. It is also good to take good time on the big decisions.