20/40 foxwoods, flop spot
 

this hand is posted for nina

full table. 2 fish limp, taggy sb raises, we call 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in bb.

flop q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

sb leads.

we were thinking this is a probably raise or fold right, probably (this is babar thinking) leaning a bit more toward raise? what do you guys think?

edited to put in that we agreed it was raise or fold, nina didn't say what she thought, and i (babar) think maybe raise.

Re: 20/40 foxwoods, flop spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
this hand is posted for nina

full table. 2 fish limp, taggy sb raises, we call 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in bb.

flop q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

sb leads.

we were thinking this is a probably raise or fold right, probably leaning a bit more toward raise? what do you guys think?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I'm leaning the way heck towards folding. Before calling that one extra small bet pre-flop, know what you're looking for in a flop. This isn't it.

Garland

Re: 20/40 foxwoods, flop spot
 

Exactly - he either has AK or you're tortured and he's not folding. And someone behind you could have a queen as well. It's muckville time.

Jeff

Re: 20/40 foxwoods, flop spot
 

The pair on the flop hurts you more than it helps. While he might not have a queen, you have a terrible hand because you can't even suck out with two pair.

Unless you have an extremely specific read on this player that he doesn't have a pair yet, fold.

Re: 20/40 foxwoods, flop spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this hand is posted for nina

full table. 2 fish limp, taggy sb raises, we call 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in bb.

flop q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

sb leads.

we were thinking this is a probably raise or fold right, probably leaning a bit more toward raise? what do you guys think?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I'm leaning the way heck towards folding. Before calling that one extra small bet pre-flop, know what you're looking for in a flop. This isn't it.

Garland

[/ QUOTE ]

Indeed...while it is difficult to fold a low, suited one-gapper preflop getting 7:1, the fact that your position sucks relative to the raiser means that on the flop you often will: be forced to make difficult decisions about hands which may be ahead but have terrible reverse implied odds or face a possible squeeze when you flop a draw.

Re: 20/40 foxwoods, flop spot
 

this depends on who the sb is and how wide his range is. you should raise the flop if I'm the sb but against most players in this game it's a fold.

Re: 20/40 foxwoods, flop spot
 

yeah, i'm usually in the fold camp.

by raising we do have the sweet advantage of folding out the fish and getting HU with the taggy SB who showed a decent amount of strength pf(although one could argue he was trying to get you out of the pot so he would have the fish to himself).

i'm calling pf. i might call the flop, but if my options are raise or fold, i fold.

Re: 20/40 foxwoods, flop spot
 

This is a tough spot, I used to raise in these spots, but I agree with the posters saying that you have terrible reverse implied odds in this spot. I think it's muck time since you can't even suck out with 2 pair.

Re: 20/40 foxwoods, flop spot
 

Whatever to this thread so far. First, it's not raise or fold. You certainly can call here. Raise vs. Call depends on the predictability of the SB. A good TAG has a range lots larger than AK AA-99 here. This "he's got AK or we're toast" stuff is way too pessimistic unless he's not a TAG at all, and rather is weak tight.

Let's put it like this, I'm no LAG, but my range here with two retards limping in, my SB and a decent BB I don't want in my pot: A9s, ATo, JTs, 88 and up.

Re: 20/40 foxwoods, flop spot
 

I like a raise.