KQs on a scary Q high flop
 

Loose, mostly passive Friday night B&M 3/6 game

Main opponents here:

BB – older Asian man, 95% preflop, will call to river with any piece of the flop or draw

MP1 - young kid, barely looks 21, ~40-50% preflop, raises good hands after flop, hasn’t been at table very long

MP2 - little older, 50-60% preflop, raises good hands after flop, calls down light

I’m on the button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

5 limpers to me, I raise, SB folds, BB and all the limpers call.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7 players, 13 SB after rake

Checked to the CO who bets, I raise (??), BB calls, some folds, MP1 3 bets, MP2 caps, folded to CO who folds, I call 2 more (??), BB calls.

CO was ~50% preflop, obviously pretty experienced with post flop play, had taken shots at pots with air. I didn’t think he had a flush when he bet. After he folded, he apparently didn’t even have one spade. I raised to try to knock out players who did not have a club to improve my chances. Clearly if another club came, my hand was dead. MP1 or MP2 could already have a flush here.

Turn: [5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4 players, 15 BB

BB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, I call (??), everyone else calls.

MP2 might have the flush in which case I’m drawing dead, and a raise isn’t going to knock anyone out, so I just called.

River: [5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4 players, 19 BB

BB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, I call (??), BB folds, MP2 calls

By the river only MP2 could have the flush, and my gut feeling was he didn’t have it either, but with this many players somebody must have a 9 or two pair on this board. The pot was just too big to fold, so I called. Comments?

Re: KQs on a scary Q high flop
 

given your line, fold on the flop when it's 2 more back to you

i would have just called the flop the first time

Re: KQs on a scary Q high flop
 

Yikes. Personally, I might just smoothcall the flop and then go for a turn raise if a nonclub drops. The flushdraws are never folding and your equity goes way up on the turn.

When MP2 caps this I'm folding. Do you really think this weak tight old man is capping the flop w/ anything but a flush?

Re: KQs on a scary Q high flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
When MP2 caps this I'm folding. Do you really think this weak tight old man is capping the flop w/ anything but a flush?

[/ QUOTE ]

MP2 was not weak tight, he was way too loose, usually passive, and called way to many hands down. Still I did not feel good about calling this. I just didn't feel sure he really had the flush as compared to just one big club.

Re: KQs on a scary Q high flop
 

flop is an easy fold when it's 2 back to you; MP2 is check/cold-capping a monotone board into multiple players including the PFR, you are toast.

Re: KQs on a scary Q high flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
MP2 was not weak tight, he was way too loose, usually passive, and called way to many hands down. Still I did not feel good about calling this. I just didn't feel sure he really had the flush as compared to just one big club.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry Mike, I don't know how I interpreted 50-60% preflop as tight, lol.

Nonetheless, when it's 2 back to you w/ top pair this is a fold. Best case scenario, they all only have 1 club (with MP2 holding Ac) or possibly 2 pair, and the rest of the time you're drawing dead or near dead against a flush/set. Seems like this could get pretty expensive only to hit and find out you're dead anyways. Find a better spot.

Re: KQs on a scary Q high flop
 

Just call the flop. Ac Xz is never folding, and by raising you might get rid of people who are basically drawing dead with things like Jc Xz, 4c 4d etc.

Re: KQs on a scary Q high flop
 

Your line is OK, lots and lots of live limit players cap the flop withOUT the goods. It's a spot to show strength w/o having to put in lots of money (just lots of bets [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]).

Only thing is...is you say the game is loose PASSIVE, which makes me want to muck after the flop c/r three bet then c/r cap. If that's the case, I think you have to fold and wait for a better spot.

Re: KQs on a scary Q high flop
 

call the 1st flop bet and fold once you have to call all those other bets.

the only time you can get aggressive with this hand is if everyone calls the 1st flop bet, and the turn is a blank rag. you can then do a turn raise/fold.

Re: KQs on a scary Q high flop
 

next time buy MP2 a drink, its cheaper than donating 3 big bets.