i play like everyone else
 

one of those situations that seemed like a good idea at the time but probably wasn't....

20/40 FW

just sat from a must move played about a couple of orbits... there's a few clueless folks in the game...

UTG: 20ish kid, classic tag a bit on the passive side and doesn't mind open limping...

CO: older guy, loose passivish but is able to 3bet pf with 88/AQs...

BB: just really bad and weird... loose passive variety...

UTG limps, i raise A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in mp, older gentlemen 3bets, BB cold calls, UTG calls, i fold... heh

flop for 6.5 bbs

3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

utg checks, i check, CO bets, BB calls, UTG now c/r's, i'm about to 3bet i look at CO and he's stacked 8 chips, so i just coldcall, CO 3 bets, BB calls, UTG calls, I call...

didn't think the coldcall was good... i thought it was ok if co was going to 3bet anyway but stacking 8 chips for a raise could easily be just a call...

turn for 12.5bbs

T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

SB checks, UTG bets, I call...

how bad is this?

Re: i play like everyone else
 

You should cap that flop 4-ways and raise that turn card.

Re: i play like everyone else
 

cap flop most of the time,

i would raise the turn, most likely if CO has a diamond with his overpair he is calling either way, and i like to charge him for the 4 outter in this spot - also, if utg goes 3, i go 4 and call down from there

Re: i play like everyone else
 

[ QUOTE ]
if utg goes 3, i go 4 and call down from there



[/ QUOTE ]

Hero should find a way to get the flop capped.

Hero needs to raise the turn, but...

This is at FW's where if a loose/passivish fellow goes 3-bets on the turn your flush is not looking very good, heck there are a few folks there that you could even fold your nut flush to a 3-bet on a paired board.

Re: i play like everyone else
 

i kind of let a quick observation cloud my thinking in not c-3betting the flop...

i think calling the turn... i wasn't comfortable putting in a 3rd turn bet to that turn against UTG who looked like he had a clue and i was pretty sure i could get two calls behind me against one guy who either has me crushed or drawing to 2 outs and another guy who definately has at most 2 outs... i was contemplating a fold if CO raised as well and if i raised the turn and he 3bet i was dropping...

so i was trying to gain a bet with two calls rather than raising and have both fold and risking putting in a 3rd bet and being crushed usually... is this crazy or am i overthinking this?

Re: i play like everyone else
 

Cap the flop for value when it gets back to you. Raise the turn for value.

Re: i play like everyone else
 

Once the flop gets three bet a cap is definitely +EV for you. On the turn I raise but if I am three bet I would call down from there.

Re: i play like everyone else
 

I Cap flop and I raise the turn for sure and also call down if it goes 3... seems to be the consensus.

As a side note, it really smells like KdJd from UTG. I think he 4-bets this flop if he has a set or T9 here.

Re: i play like everyone else
 

[ QUOTE ]

so i was trying to gain a bet with two calls rather than raising and have both fold and risking putting in a 3rd bet and being crushed usually... is this crazy or am i overthinking this?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not crazy thinkng, it's similar to going for overcalls on the river when you have a good but not super-strong hand.

But in this case, I don't know how you can assume 2 callers are going to go in behind you, especially since you have the A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. I also don't think you're going to get 3-bet very often here.

Re: i play like everyone else
 

the cold call/cap would have been hot on the flop. Pop the turn here UTG has just a T here so often (will also show up with a worse flush on occasion too).