A8s, huge flop
 

Good 3/6 Full TIlt game. No reads. Let me know how I did. I think every street is debatable.

Couple early limpers and I limp along with A8hh. Folds to the blinds who call. Five to the flop.

Flop is As Th 3h. Checked to my right hand opponent who bets, I call, everyone else calls. Five to the turn, which is the 2s.

Checked once again to my right hand opponent. He bets once again, I raise, SB calls, everyone else folds. Heads up to the river, which is the 7d.

SB checks, I check behind.

-McGee

Re: A8s, huge flop
 

I'm uncertain why you don't raise the flop. I'd rather have fewer players paying more than try to improve my implied odds by keeping players in. There's some chance your ace is good enough, but a lot of hands may be able to outdraw your one pair hand profitably with things like gutshots. Smaller flush draws will pay two bets, and I'd love to see the fireworks happen if they're up against you and you hit.

As played, I like the turn raise and the river check. You can get a third bet in when you improve, you protect your hand, and it typically costs you the same as it would to call the turn and river.

Re: A8s, huge flop
 

mcgee - just curious, do you make the raise with no one behind you?

Re: A8s, huge flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
mcgee - just curious, do you make the raise with no one behind you?

[/ QUOTE ]

The turn raise? Yeah, probably. I'm not sure that's consistent with my flop play (which I hate more and more, btw. I'm not sure this hand was even worth posting).

-McGee

Re: A8s, huge flop
 

Are you thinking about raising the flop and betting the turn instead?

I think the river check is fine -- what do you expect your opponent to throw away or pay you with if you bet? A9, A8/6/5/4?

Re: A8s, huge flop
 

the lack of reads makes it difficult for me to dispute pf(raising or folding could also be considered based on the limpers, those left to act, and the blinds). the same case on the flop(i prefer calling over raising the flop given the pot size and the board).

i think the turn plays itself; i would raise as well.

i'm valuebetting the river. seems like A9s/ATs are the only stronger aces that a typical uknown would show up with here(in that game).

Re: A8s, huge flop
 

Raise the flop all day, every day. You have top pair and the nut flush draw and will get action from worse hands - you also don't have the nuts. I'd just as gutshots fold and collect money from worse flush draws, etc.

Jeff

Re: A8s, huge flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the flop all day, every day. You have top pair and the nut flush draw and will get action from worse hands - you also don't have the nuts. I'd just as gutshots fold and collect money from worse flush draws, etc.

Jeff

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Jeff, does it change your opinion at all if the board is A93 instead of AT3?

James, do you want to make an argument for why a call on the flop is okay/best?

-McGee

Re: A8s, huge flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
James, do you want to make an argument for why a call on the flop is okay/best?

[/ QUOTE ]

the only other draw is a gutter. it really only has 3 outs since we have the FD so they need 14.67-1 to correctly call. going for overcalls in this tiny pot will still cause them to draw incorrectly. plus, if we call and someone raises behind us we can 3bet and really build a pot.

i guess it shouldn't be completely neglected the times our raise manages to isolate a better hand and charge us to draw.

if the pot was larger(even just a couple sb) i would prefer raising. if i had a read that we would get some coldcallers or more action i would prefer raising. without that info i don't mind going for the overcalls and getting a few more smallbets in the pot while also preserving our implied odds. i can probably come up with more, but this is just off the top of my head.

Re: A8s, huge flop
 

nh