Ruling that put me in a tough spot.
 

So Im at my poker club and its my night to run the floor, I have ran the floor of the club about 2-3 times and have only had to make a ruling once. I was called over and was told that the dealer accidentally took cards into the muck, and the dealer told me the same, but the player, actually called.

So there was an allin bet and a call and the callers cards have been taken in by the dealer and then the action stopped and I was called over. After hearing everyones story, I told the dealer that the call was verbal binding and his cards dont go into the muck, since the dealer had been holding the cards the whole time. The player flipped over queen high and won the pot, and the person who bet all in mucked his hand.

I was told later that my ruling was wrong, and that the default ruling was that if cards are in the muck then they stay there and the hand is dead. But since Ive never read any official rule books or have been told which rulings I should make I played the situation by ear and gave the most objective ruling that I could come up with. I later apologized to the player, who was actually a regular at the room and someone I personally knew, that I made the wrong ruling and I was unaware that the default ruling was that mucked cards stay there.

comments appreciated.

Re: Ruling that put me in a tough spot.
 

If the cards were easily identifiable, then you made the right ruling. The muck does not magically kill a hand

Re: Ruling that put me in a tough spot.
 

As long as reasonable retrieval is possible then the cards are not dead. Just say no to Magic Muck.

Re: Ruling that put me in a tough spot.
 

you made the right call. The cards had not been mixed into the muck and were easy to identify. Table the cards and the best hand wins.
Warn the player to protect his hand.

Re: Ruling that put me in a tough spot.
 

you made the correct ruling.

Re: Ruling that put me in a tough spot.
 

[ QUOTE ]
you made the correct ruling.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. From Robert's Rules of Poker, Section 3 - General Poker Rules, Dead Hands subsection, Paragraph 2: "Cards thrown into the muck may be ruled dead. However, a hand that is clearly identifiable may be retrieved and ruled live at management’s discretion if doing so is in the best interest of the game. An extra effort should be made to rule a hand retrievable if it was folded as a result of incorrect information given to the player."

http://www.pokercoach.us/RobsPkrRules11.doc

Re: Ruling that put me in a tough spot.
 

[ QUOTE ]
you made the correct ruling.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree with this and all other comments as long as it was absolutely clear that the caller's hand was not intermingled with the muck and you could be absolutely sure they were the right cards.

Just noticed this too. If they were intermingled yet (from the OP "The player flipped over queen high and won the pot, and the person who bet all in mucked his hand." a good case could be made that no caller of a substantial bet could possibly not beat the all-in player (who apparently was on a stone cold bluff with less than queen high).

I've made this sort of ruling in LA card clubs ten years back were the rules tend to veer toward awarding the best hand the pot (especially when there is a staff error).

~ Rick

Re: Ruling that put me in a tough spot.
 

Wow, no controversy here. Six posts in a row in agreement. Make this number seven.

Re: Ruling that put me in a tough spot.
 

You made the correct ruling. 8.

Re: Ruling that put me in a tough spot.
 

nh