River raise in blind battle
 

Time for me to start posting hands so i can fix my many leaks.

Prima 20/40 6 handed

Villian 30/18 decent player. The preflop 3 bet means he has at least a decent hand.

Preflop: I open raise KT[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]s, bb 3 bets and i call.

Flop: K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] I c/c

Turn: 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] I c/r and he calls.

River: 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] I bet, he raise and I call.


I allways call in this spot and I allways loose. Should I make the call because I have top pair in a blindbattle or do I fold because I cant think of a hand I can beat?

Re: River raise in blind battle
 

First, I would generally check/raise the flop instead of the turn. This is actually a pretty decent board to wait for the turn to check/raise because there are a lot of weak draws that can peel this flop, so your opponent will be betting almost all turns.

River's a nasty spot. I think A4 is unlikely, so he's basically representing a flush. It would be a pretty ballsy bluff raise, so on that level I think folding could be right in this situation. That said, I almost always pay off in these spots. I don't think this is much of a leak at all.

For the most part, having an image of someone who sees a lot of showdowns and "pays off" from time to time when it's "obvious" you're beat is actually pretty good for you. It protects you those times you have not hit the flop or have a weak hand that can't withstand much pressure. Saving 1 BB here or there on the river several times is all well and good, unless you're having just 1 medium+ size pot stolen from out under you.

I'd spend more time on whether you are making good decisions on earlier streets. It's true that river play is something that often distinguishes expert players from merely good ones (or so I've heard -- my river play is the weakest aspect of my game), but the basics of winning play come from making good plans after the flop (and to a lesser degree, before the flop).

Re: River raise in blind battle
 

Good post, and I agree.

The players I dislike most to play against are those that are aggressive, not very loose but u get the feeling that they somehow are impossible to bluff. And having this image is worth a lot.

I am not sure I ever seen someone I think of as a really good player having a low went to showdown.

Also, its not like u never win these showdowns. Sometimes he will hope u were cr a draw on turn (some aggressive players never attack with a draw on flop) and now u will fold, but of course I would prefer flush didnt hit river, since this often is what u would have cr on turn if u had a draw so its not easy to see what he is hoping u got.

Re: River raise in blind battle
 

Ok this sounds reasonable. I guess I'll keep calling then..
Thanks for the replies.

Re: River raise in blind battle
 

BTW, I am not saying you can't ever fold in these spots. It's just that you need a really good read to do so. If you're looking to make these folds all the time, then you'll run into trouble. If you are aware of what's going around you and find a few places here and there to make some good folds, that will add some +EV.

Re: River raise in blind battle
 

I an 40 wtsd and i dont even think as i click call there. He could easily have KX in my book. Your turn c/r means squat if I do it.

JT