Ethics Question: River Showdown
 

-player 1 and player 2 are involved in an PL Omaha pot.

player 1 has KQT3, player 2 has KJ92.

an openraise, and light reraise go in preflop.

the flop comes down JT2, player 1 bets, player 2 raises close to pot, and player 1 shoves all-in for almost a pot sized raise.

the turn is a jack, the river is a jack.

player 1 pauses for a second and then flips over a queen and a ten, because he is first to show (last agressive action, OOP)

-player 2 makes a motion, expecting to see the next two cards.

once player 1 flips over his other 2 cards, player 2 promptly tables his hand and rakes in the pot with the nuts.

a few questions:

Re: Ethics Question: River Showdown
 

Also, does the situation change if player 2 does not have the nuts?

Re: Ethics Question: River Showdown
 

[ QUOTE ]
-player 1 and player 2 are involved in an PL Omaha pot.

player 1 has KQT3, player 2 has KJ92.

an openraise, and light reraise go in preflop.

the flop comes down JT2, player 1 bets, player 2 raises close to pot, and player 1 shoves all-in for almost a pot sized raise.

the turn is a jack, the river is a jack.

player 1 pauses for a second and then flips over a queen and a ten, because he is first to show (last agressive action, OOP)

-player 2 makes a motion, expecting to see the next two cards.

once player 1 flips over his other 2 cards, player 2 promptly tables his hand and rakes in the pot with the nuts.


[/ QUOTE ]

Slightly dickish for a home game, but it can't be a slowroll by definition. However, in a home game, why be a schmuck? Turn over your Jack-kicker and stop messing around.

If you want to see the other cards, to see what Player 1 was shoving with, just ask. Player 1 should have turned them all over anyway, but he didn't make a huge faux pas (he probably expected Player 2 to muck, perhaps?)

btw- adopting the tourney rule of "all-in? turn 'em over now" solves all of the arguments about this kind of petty crap in cash games. Most home games are about the entertainment factor, as well as playing cards, so just show the cards.


Your other post- it doesn't change if P2 doesn't have the nuts, as long as he or she has the winner.

Now, if P1 would show QT and THEN slowroll the Jack after P2 showed, THAT would be yes to both #1 and #2

Re: Ethics Question: River Showdown
 

This isn't ethics, it's etiquette. Other than that I'd say it's not a total slow roll as player 2 probably wanted to see what player 1 pushed with so he followed the standard showdown procedure.

Whats the purpose of player 1 turning over two cards and then pausing? Was he trying to mess with player 2?

And player 2 did not have the absolute nuts. JT beat him and player 1 turned over a ten.....
If feelings were hurt solve this by having cards turned up immediately once players are all. Makes it more exciting for everyone.

Re: Ethics Question: River Showdown
 

[ QUOTE ]
And player 2 did not have the absolute nuts. JT beat him and player 1 turned over a ten.....

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that JT "beats" him in the sense that the entire hand is fouled.

...unless you play with the J of Stars and the Old Maid and perhaps Draw 4 Wild. Me, I'm unimaginative and so play with only 52 cards. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Ethics Question: River Showdown
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And player 2 did not have the absolute nuts. JT beat him and player 1 turned over a ten.....

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that JT "beats" him in the sense that the entire hand is fouled.

...unless you play with the J of Stars and the Old Maid and perhaps Draw 4 Wild. Me, I'm unimaginative and so play with only 52 cards. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]


Okay...I'm an idiot. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: Ethics Question: River Showdown
 

Player 1 is the one who is not ethical here. The rule is you have to show all four cards to win. He has not followed the rule, he is trying to angle-shoot out of showing his cards.

If it's a friendly home game, I might let it go. Anywhere else, if I was player 2, I'd show the 9 and the 2 and wait for him to turn over the others.

Re: Ethics Question: River Showdown
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And player 2 did not have the absolute nuts. JT beat him and player 1 turned over a ten.....

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that JT "beats" him in the sense that the entire hand is fouled.

...unless you play with the J of Stars and the Old Maid and perhaps Draw 4 Wild. Me, I'm unimaginative and so play with only 52 cards. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
hahahaha

thanks for the responses guys

Re: Ethics Question: River Showdown
 

[ QUOTE ]
if I was player 2, I'd show the 9 and the 2 and wait for him to turn over the others.

[/ QUOTE ]
I was player 2, I wish I had.

Re: Ethics Question: River Showdown
 

why would player one show QT... if he was gonna show 2 cards he should have showed KQ