More Fun in Big Pots
 

Bellagio 30-60. UTG is a TAG who almost gets poker. I'll ask you about the rest later.

Preflop:
UTG raises. 4 coldcallers to The Dude in the CO who calls w/ 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Button 3-bets, BB calls, UTG 4-bets, everyone calls to Button who caps it. Again everyone calls.

Flop: (40.33 SBs) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(8 Players)</font>
Checked to The Dude...

Against what types of players on the button should we be donking this flop?

Re: More Fun in Big Pots
 

given the loose game, this sounds like classic case of "check to the raiser/capper." regardless or whether button would check behind here, i'm probably not betting your marginal hand in this pot.

Re: More Fun in Big Pots
 

There's no point in leading in this pot; your hand is too weak, and there could be some crazy action to come. I'd fold preflop even with four cold-callers, but it's close.

Re: More Fun in Big Pots
 

a raise from button doesn't protect your hand and the pot is so big that you're not going to force anyone out. Check to the raiser and see what happens in front

Re: More Fun in Big Pots
 

I can see what you are getting at, since if button raises and UTG indeed gets poker, he should be 3-betting 100% of the time and with only BB in between, it could knock out everybody else which would be HUGE for our equity and very much +EV

we need a player on the button who understands the importance of knocking out players in bigg ass potts

Re: More Fun in Big Pots
 

I don't think there's any type of player that merits a donk here. I want to get lucky on the turn and I want to do it cheaply. I suppose one could make a case, in Vegas, for betting against a player who would have capped with A-K and will now raise with it, hopefully eliminating those players with pocket pairs between a 5 and a J, but with the pot that big, it's not likely anyone with anything of value is going away for the extra small bet.

BTW, if I was going to play this hand preflop, I'd consider 3-betting in Vegas where they'll likely all check to you on the flop and they're much less prone to 4-bet, given the 5-bet cap.

Re: More Fun in Big Pots
 

[ QUOTE ]
I can see what you are getting at, since if button raises and UTG indeed gets poker, he should be 3-betting 100% of the time and with only BB in between, it could knock out everybody else which would be HUGE for our equity and very much +EV

we need a player on the button who understands the importance of knocking out players in bigg ass potts

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a big fan of plays like this, but this situation sounds hopeless. It seems like we're doing nothing more than providing ourselves with an excuse for committal. I would follow Andy's advice and check to see what happens.

The real question is, are we calling 2 cold when the button bets, UTG raises, and everyone sponges in between? We should for immediate odds based upon hand ranges that leave only JJ destroying us, but what about all the possible action behind us? We are potentially putting in 5 bets again on the flop to see the turn, to make a counterfeitable hand.

Re: More Fun in Big Pots
 

[ QUOTE ]
The real question is, are we calling 2 cold when the button bets, UTG raises, and everyone sponges in between?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty much always seeing the turn here, and only rarely folding there.